Johnny Depp Vs Amber Heard verdict discussion
It isn't BS to say this case will make it more difficult for women to come forward.
You are looking at it from the perspective of someone who watched the trial and formed an opinion.
Instead, look at it from the perspective of someone who has not watched the trial and does not have an opinion on the veracity of the claims made by either side. What do they see?
What they see is a woman not only being completely torn apart by society and the media, but with the vast majority of society seeming to enjoy the fact she was knocked down.
Why would anyone risk telling their own story in a climate like that? Why would they think they would be believed when she wasn't? Abusers tell their victims all the time that no one will ever believe them, and their sense of self has long been destroyed by the abuse. They won't see how or why their telling their story would come out any differently than what has happened here. They haven't parsed all the details like you have, they don't feel they "know" she was lying. What they see is how viciously she's been tarred.
Looking at it all strictly from future victims perspectives, I worry about the chilling effect allowing this to become such a spectacle will have.
Why do stories need to be told? What a person needs to do is file for a restraining order and file for a divorce. That's a proactive way of dealing with it. If someone is willing to tell their story to the public, then they shouldn't be afraid to take the less dangerous and more practical legal steps towards ending abuse. Amber Heard had all sorts of options such as having her injuries medically diagnosed as evidence towards filing criminal charges against Depp. Instead she went to the Washington Post to do an op-ed on him.
Filing a legal action requires telling someone your story. I'm not talking about to the public.
If you are afraid no one will believe you, you won't share enough with anyone important to file a legal action.
Have you, by the way, READ the op ed? The op ed wasn't designed to expose Johnny. It was written to expose the way the PUBLIC treated her after accusations became public.
That's a good point regarding the WP op ed. Apparently she used other formats to publicly expose him and that op ed was the culmination of all that. The thing is some people lie about abuse and make false accusations. And that's what has caused problems along the lines of #metoo. However, it seems to me I have read about many men losing their jobs over accusations, so it seems more often than not the accuser is believed. Take Keven Spacey for example since I just saw his situation coming up in the news again. It seems pretty clear most believe his accuser. Even though he was a very famous powerful well liked actor.
In Amber Heard's case however it seemed quite clear to most that she was lying. So it seems a case of stacking up #metoo accusations that have been believed, against those that are obviously bogus or at least greatly embellished. It seems to me in all of the history of "metoo" reaction towards Amber Heard has been the exception, rather than the rule. And again, in her case it was perceived by most that she was lying through her teeth. Was the jury supposed to find in her favor despite that for the sake of the credibility of "metoo"? What kind of message would that have sent?
I understand the whole "me too" thing as created a hotbed of confusion for a lot of men. I've posted here before that I was witness to a case where a co-worker created real harm, but was completely innocent in his intentions. The disconnect between what men think they are doing and what women are experiencing can be very real.
A few things are worth noting, to help sort out what to worry about and how to act:
1. Know where you are on the power scale. If you have any ability to affect someone's career because you carry more power in the company, you have to start from the assumption that they are not friendly with you by choice. That is your starting place. You aren't their friend, you are their superior. If THEY actively take actions to advance a true friendship, you can accept that friendship, but stay wary. Sad, but that is how it is. Easier to accept real friendships from people at your same level professionally. The lack of understanding power scale placement is probably the number 1 reason behind every misunderstanding I've seen. Professionals moving up the scale aren't always aware their promotions require a change in how they handle personal relationships.
Outside of the workplace, remember that most men have a physical advantage over most women, which means they start higher on the power scale. Men may have to work against the power scale position and achieve more sense of parity in interactions before pursuing relationships.
2. Don't be a power hungry a$$hole at work. Period. Being volatile or demanding means your subordinates will fear you. If they fear you, they can more easily misunderstand your intentions. The guy who yells at work and is mean to people has no friends at work. He thinks he has friends, but he doesn't. What he has are people afraid to upset him, which is extremely ripe soil for misunderstandings.
Moving on to how fiercely an abuser will try to protect their own reputation.
The answer is VERY. They will deny, deny, deny, and deny.
I've always started from the assumption that the person accused doesn't understand the effect of their own actions. I've tried to have conversations to help them ferret out what happened, and if they innocently had fault. Everyone should have an opportunity to do better, right? A lot of men don't want to cause harm, and are humbled when they realize they actually have. The conversation would also be a time to figure out if the accusation was malicious and false, but I have yet to be involved in one where that was the case. Most common, in my experience, is innocent intentions and ignorance of how they came across on the other side.
Men who abuse with some subconscious knowledge or intention, if not conscious ... well, one turned on me. *I* became the target of his emotional abuse for having the gall to believe his ex wife. He even threatened the social well being of my child if I got called to court and testified (our kids were friends, and his son was very popular). When he started dating another friend of mine I found myself between a rock and a hard place, eventually choosing some very careful words to tell the new wife that if something ever felt off, she could come to me. Surely enough, they ended up divorced, and she later told me that she had always appreciated that small seed. Not enough to destroy things if he had changed, but enough for her to think hard when she started to feel uncomfortable in the marriage. Thing is, this man remains a huge part of this community and is very popular. The women in our community have found a brilliant (and very kind) way to keep him from marrying again, thankfully. You can't confront men like that; you (or someone you care about) just becomes another victim. But don't think that just because someone sues to defend their own reputation that must mean they are innocent. And don't think because someone is popular they are innocent.
Tricky stuff, interpersonal relationships. Sorting out who is telling the truth, who is lying, who is dangerous. I prefer to protect the most people without having to actually decide. So what some of the women in our community are doing with this man ... brilliant.
For the record, EVERY woman I know in real life has a "me, too" story. Some more serious than others, but we've all been subjected. Some men learn to do better, others don't. It breaks my heart that despite decades of trying to improve the situation, the level of misogyny in our society has been growing, instead.
We shouldn't have to decide who is right and who is wrong. We should simply protect.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
There are body language experts saying she was lying in court. Plus there are audio videos posted online recorded by Johnny and it sounds to me she was gaslighting him. Poor Johnny felt like he was going insane so he had to record their conversations.
And I found an article online by The Daily Mail about Amber and her two friends trashing their penthouse to make it look like Johnny did it.
This wouldn't be the first time nor the last that the news would report something so inaccurate. Don't forget the McDonalds lady who poured hot coffee on herself.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
And I found an article online by The Daily Mail about Amber and her two friends trashing their penthouse to make it look like Johnny did it.
This wouldn't be the first time nor the last that the news would report something so inaccurate. Don't forget the McDonalds lady who poured hot coffee on herself.
That was the one thing Heard won.
And I found an article online by The Daily Mail about Amber and her two friends trashing their penthouse to make it look like Johnny did it.
This wouldn't be the first time nor the last that the news would report something so inaccurate. Don't forget the McDonalds lady who poured hot coffee on herself.
It turns out the McDonald's coffee case was actually legit. The water temperature was set way above what's considered safe. The burns were far more severe than they should have been.
A few things are worth noting, to help sort out what to worry about and how to act:
1. Know where you are on the power scale. If you have any ability to affect someone's career because you carry more power in the company, you have to start from the assumption that they are not friendly with you by choice. That is your starting place. You aren't their friend, you are their superior. If THEY actively take actions to advance a true friendship, you can accept that friendship, but stay wary. Sad, but that is how it is. Easier to accept real friendships from people at your same level professionally. The lack of understanding power scale placement is probably the number 1 reason behind every misunderstanding I've seen. Professionals moving up the scale aren't always aware their promotions require a change in how they handle personal relationships.
Outside of the workplace, remember that most men have a physical advantage over most women, which means they start higher on the power scale. Men may have to work against the power scale position and achieve more sense of parity in interactions before pursuing relationships.
2. Don't be a power hungry a$$hole at work. Period. Being volatile or demanding means your subordinates will fear you. If they fear you, they can more easily misunderstand your intentions. The guy who yells at work and is mean to people has no friends at work. He thinks he has friends, but he doesn't. What he has are people afraid to upset him, which is extremely ripe soil for misunderstandings.
Moving on to how fiercely an abuser will try to protect their own reputation.
The answer is VERY. They will deny, deny, deny, and deny.
I've always started from the assumption that the person accused doesn't understand the effect of their own actions. I've tried to have conversations to help them ferret out what happened, and if they innocently had fault. Everyone should have an opportunity to do better, right? A lot of men don't want to cause harm, and are humbled when they realize they actually have. The conversation would also be a time to figure out if the accusation was malicious and false, but I have yet to be involved in one where that was the case. Most common, in my experience, is innocent intentions and ignorance of how they came across on the other side.
Men who abuse with some subconscious knowledge or intention, if not conscious ... well, one turned on me. *I* became the target of his emotional abuse for having the gall to believe his ex wife. He even threatened the social well being of my child if I got called to court and testified (our kids were friends, and his son was very popular). When he started dating another friend of mine I found myself between a rock and a hard place, eventually choosing some very careful words to tell the new wife that if something ever felt off, she could come to me. Surely enough, they ended up divorced, and she later told me that she had always appreciated that small seed. Not enough to destroy things if he had changed, but enough for her to think hard when she started to feel uncomfortable in the marriage. Thing is, this man remains a huge part of this community and is very popular. The women in our community have found a brilliant (and very kind) way to keep him from marrying again, thankfully. You can't confront men like that; you (or someone you care about) just becomes another victim. But don't think that just because someone sues to defend their own reputation that must mean they are innocent. And don't think because someone is popular they are innocent.
Tricky stuff, interpersonal relationships. Sorting out who is telling the truth, who is lying, who is dangerous. I prefer to protect the most people without having to actually decide. So what some of the women in our community are doing with this man ... brilliant.
For the record, EVERY woman I know in real life has a "me, too" story. Some more serious than others, but we've all been subjected. Some men learn to do better, others don't. It breaks my heart that despite decades of trying to improve the situation, the level of misogyny in our society has been growing, instead.
We shouldn't have to decide who is right and who is wrong. We should simply protect.
Is it the level of misogyny that's growing, or the level of what's considered misogyny? I suspect the latter.
And what about the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men?
I think Johnny Depp is an arrogant ass, so I wouldn’t put much past him.
I like his movies, especially his older ones, though.
It's important to seperate the actor from the person or character they portray. It's no big secret that most (if not all) top actors and actresses have some level of narcissism and arrogance.
I never claimed that he was the same person as his characters.

Just saying he's probably not a saint in his private life. But then again he is no worse than other male actor.
And what about the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men?
Not sure why you are conflating two different issues?
Yes what is considered mysogyny has changed over the years. A little over 100 years ago (barely a blink of the eye in history) An American man could beat up your wife till she was red black and blue (they could also rape and murder a female child if they were their property (slave) but that's another topic).
But not sure what that has to do with women disliking/being contemptuous or prejudiced against men?
And what about the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men?
Not sure why you are conflating two different issues?
Yes what is considered mysogyny has changed over the years. A little over 100 years ago (barely a blink of the eye in history) An American man could beat up your wife till she was red black and blue (they could also rape and murder a female child if they were their property (slave) but that's another topic).
But not sure what that has to do with women disliking/being contemptuous or prejudiced against men?
The definition of misogyny is; the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
Apparently the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men, doesn't exist or is deemed irrelevant.
And although what gets called misogyny has become hypersensitive, it gets totally suspended if the woman is a "Karen".
For the record, EVERY woman I know in real life has a "me, too" story. Some more serious than others, but we've all been subjected. Some men learn to do better, others don't. It breaks my heart that despite decades of trying to improve the situation, the level of misogyny in our society has been growing, instead.
We shouldn't have to decide who is right and who is wrong. We should simply protect.
Is it the level of misogyny that's growing, or the level of what's considered misogyny? I suspect the latter.
And what about the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men?
I would say currently growing. Comparing to 50 years ago is, of course, different than comparing to 30 years ago. There were several decades where the situation for women was getting clearly better, and it seemed society was on a positive track, becoming safer for women. But there has been backlash, and the backlash means it is getting worse again.
I do know women who want to have it both ways, to be treated fairly while actively showing contempt for men. If I'm interacting with them, I will call them out on it. We can't create a more fair world by throwing back just to "even" out the long term score.
I raised both a son and a daughter. I want them both to be treated well in this world. Society handed both different advantages and disadvantages, but it's only my daughter that I have to warn about walking alone at night.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Apparently the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men, doesn't exist or is deemed irrelevant.
I acknowledged the existence before I saw your post with this comment.
I tend to feel women need to censor each other on it so we can continue to present a united front on the broader issues facing women. And ... Reality remains that men currently hold - by far - more of the power and wealth in society, so contempt for men is less likely to result in actual harm to very many men. As I noted when talking about "me, too," knowing who has more power is key to interpreting situations. You can't take your eyes off it.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
auntblabby
Veteran

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,803
Location: the island of defective toy santas
One woman filed a complaint because I said "Good morning" when I walked past her receptionist's desk first thing every day. The discussion with HR was humiliating and embarrassing. So I would come in through the loading dock instead. Then I got called back into HR because the receptionist claimed I was ignoring her. Another humiliating and embarrassing discussion ensued. My next discussion with HR involved their receipt of my two weeks' notice.
that firm had the devil in it.
I had a funny "sexual harassment" situation once when in my 20s. I was doing maintenance for a hotel. An desk clerk who was openly gay, flirted with me I guess, by doing something to the brim of my cap, if I recall correctly. Whatever it was I told him "don't ever touch me again" or something like that. Which only had to do with my autism.
Anyways he complained about my attitude to somebody, which turned into a sexual harassment thing against him. I got called into the manager's office so the mgr could profusely apologize to me. "I sincerely apologize for my staff" etc. I think he was put off during that because I was probably giving him a bank stare, because I had quit caring about what happened shortly after it occurred.
auntblabby
Veteran

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,803
Location: the island of defective toy santas
Apparently the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men, doesn't exist or is deemed irrelevant.
And although what gets called misogyny has become hypersensitive, it gets totally suspended if the woman is a "Karen".
If it's cis-straight women then I don't see a lot of evidence of prejudice against men, They are mostly opportunistic and selective over which men they are prejudiced against,
Karens also hate women
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