The system will fall

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Why do the "wretches" have no homes?

Sorry, I forgot. They must be lazy. It must be their fault. Never mind the system that doesn't provide for everyone who gets unlucky!

Of course state education is paid for out of general taxation. Unless you're going to be stupid enough to tax the poor for it, this means you have to tax the rich, and tax the corporations.

Education is not, however, just about getting jobs. It's about educating the next generation of really important people, like scientists (your capitalist infrastructure would be nowhere without scientists and engineers). Likewise you need to teach the next generation of literati and artists, who actually make a civilisation what it is.

Other countries also pay for state education out of general taxation, and most do much better than the US.

Perhaps they might do a bit better if they kept the theocrats out of the classroom, and taught creationism in religious studies, where it belongs, and not in biology class! You can't be a scientist if you are not taught to evaluate evidence, and if you're getting some theological claptrap shoved down your throat as "fact" you're certainly not being taught to evaluate evidence!

Yes, damn not only the "lazy" parents, but their children as well!



I may be misinterpreting what you seem to be implying, and I apologize in advance if I am.

Not true. In most of the States public schools are borne by the property tax.

That means home owners with no children are forced to pay for schools attended by other people's children. Is that fair?

Not only are our elementary schools unjustly funded, but they are not very good schools. America compares poorly in reading, writing, math and science with other countries, yet the U.S. has the highest per capital cost for elementary education of all the industrialized nations. We pay more for schools and get less.

ruveyn

Why do you think this is?

"crony capitalism" is more of a slang term for a corporate oligarchy, and is nothing at all like real capitalism. In a corporate oligarchy, the very large businesses use the power of the state to suppress competition, especially against small business. The big businesses will also use the state as a shield against any accountability for their actions.

I think that's socialism, communism in its true form is supposed to be a classless society having a specific group in charge would not really work. .

Much depends at that point if you accept the need for a vanguard party, at which point all previous attempts at communism were not communism at all, but I take your point. At that point you need to examine whether or not the system would still work (which is to say you need to find out if there are any obvious fallacies supporting the theory as there are in neo-classical economics).

Perhaps you might be interested to compare and contrast communalism, which would have some similarities, but be based around common ownership in a confederal structure. A modified version of this, up to a level of a confederalist world government with constrained peacekeeping, human rights and environmental protection duties, might allow oversight of places where ecological damage and so forth might take place under a system based purely on capital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communalism_%28Political_Philosophy%29

A confederalist system like this might even be able to provide the backing for the expensive science required for our species to develop scientifically, assuming that's what we as a species decide we want to do.

I might be more interested in a system of workers co-operatives, that could then be taxed, in order to support "non-productive" activity, such as scientific endeavour.

Maybe that's part of your problem. Where I come from, instead of things being ring-fenced in this way, it all comes out of general taxation - all taxes go into one big pot, and public expenditure is funded from the pot (along with a certain amount of borrowing, but I know that happens in the US as well). Doing it that way just causes resentment, although it does mean that corporate taxes are then more obviously seen being used for corporate benefit.

Exactly why your schools are s**t is another question. I can think of several reasons: creationists teaching biology is one of them. How much of that funding goes to private companies who own the schools in public-private partnership agreements, for instance? That's caused problems here, which were predicted from the start. It means you can't pay the teachers properly, so you end up with crap teachers.

As for fair, you have to fund your schools somehow. You'd still be paying the tax - you'd just be paying for different things.

One, they are only poor due to lack of funds. I would not fund children, but those old enough to move out should qualify for a not starving to death rent and food stamp package.

An income floor would not get rid of the poor, just make them less poor.

Tradition, if you want to eat you have to work, does not work with no jobs.

My view is full employment, by giving a $1.000 a month to the unemployed.

15% on the support system=full employment.

Now when I want to hire, I have to headhunt from other employers, which calls for a raise, moving expenses. Losing their workers, they have to do the same, which drives up wages, which are the most taxed income.

Paying people who are not working increases tax income, to pay for them.

Now if these supported non working consumers want to buy my product, I have to hire them. They are not going to work for food and rent, they have that, so I have to make a real offer.

At the same time the government can offer room, board, education, and another $1,000 a month to those who would plant trees, restore grasslands. Two years doing that would pay off student loans.

Two years National Service, Education, $24,000 in the bank, and debt free.

As an employer I have to meet that deal, or offer better to those who have done it.

It works for me, I do not want people who just want to eat, I want people who can be trained to be productive in the real economy.

Also all the bright young people with a secure life, some savings, debt free, will be starting their own business.

Workers will be in high demand,

Just keeping up with inflation, we need to double the minium wage.

Labor has been robbed for the last twenty years.

Now as an employer, I think at least 10% of workers should be paid to never work. They are just annoying and disruptive people.

In boom times they are the labor turnover, hired in error, fired as soon as possible. This is very expensive. Better they should never work,

They should also be paid to never shop, They stop in the middle of isles, take forever at the checkout, use up clerks time, both working and consuming are entertainment to them. They should shop online, have it delivered to their door. They should also leave the neighbors alone.

I am sure you have all met people who life would be better if they just stayed home. Prisons and Nut Houses do not cover the problem, they make a mockery of being legal and sane.

Getting these out of the way makes it worth the expense of all.

We have always had them, tried to use them, but there is no longer a need for full employment. Employment is not a form of Social Services.

Fair Employment Acts have done the most to drive jobs out of the country.

Employment is about work, making a profit, and sharing that between Capital and Labor.

There are a lot of reasons there are poor people. Nothing will solve all problems. More and more we do have ex labor that should be put out to pasture.

Some make it anyway, some can be salvaged, and others, productivity doubles when they miss work.

The way things are going we need some new towns, double wide and extra thick sidewalks, doors, seats, for 300 pounds is the new normal.

This is a Social Crash, Capitalism still works, but not when made to carry Social Programs.

The recent downturn was prayed for, business got to layoff millions who if fired would have sued. Those are the same ones who have run through 99 weeks and no one will hire. Productivity is up, profits are up,

We still need to train the young coming up, keep the economy, and get rid of government.

Alright I guess that's not too bad, I thought you were talking about some sort of nazi germany crap at first.......but that explains what you meant a bit better. Don't know that all that would work but yeah a major problem is people not being able to find work and not being able to afford their basic needs so this might address some of that.

# Inventor. I disagree. This just sticks a plaster on the old system and allows the rich to get richer.

Some of this is a good idea - ecological restoration, for example.

As for the rest, no. Capitalism is just a way to funnel cash into the pockets of the rich. Your system just writes off ten per cent of the population into the bargain. I find at least 90% of humans annoying, for one reason or another.

Your $1000 a month to the unemployed is a little simplistic. A more workable scheme might be to use a Guaranteed Income Scheme. See http://www.citizensincome.org/

That said, I think there are problems with this system as proposed and would advocate it being folded in to something more radical.

That is a ridiculous argument from the extreme right . Homeowners without children benefit from an educated society so it is not unfair that these homeowners should pay property taxes. What the extreme right wing wants is to turn this country into an uneducated third world banana republic.

I think about this and occasionally have friendly debates with friends on related subjects, and I'm not so sure about that. I think that it'd be an unintended consequence rather than the main intent. I could be wrong though.

Something more Radical? I will bring the beer!

I agree that 90% are, an exhibit of something.

I am a Capitalist because I could never get elected. I build cars and computers because I can get the parts, and put them together.

A modest proposal, paying people to not work, and not have children.

The current system is taking a small campfire, comfortable for a few, and stacking two cords of wood on it. It will not be useful, may go out, or after smoking along will consume the forest.

A mechanic is needed, How to get the highest performance with the lowest burn rate.

Rich and Poor are just problems, to keep this running, takes education, and most things we now use did not exist fifty years ago. The goal just ended, buying a big house in suberbia, is likely going to stay dead.

We need a functional middle, and in return for some help in education, they can spend some young and healthy time restoring Earth and Twenty Something and Sex in the Wild.

It is not just plant some trees, Biology is the next future. Climate shifts are making the Wheat/Corn less of a sure thing, and drought crops are needed. Native Americans grew a dozen grains, farmed a wider range.

They did not cultivate, irrigate, fertilize, and still got crops. They knew how to farm, but also grew backup crops for bad years. In good years the deer got fat, and left their fields alone.

This high energy farming is not going to last. Drought changes corn land to wheat, wheat to pasture, and pasture to desert. Fine if you like desert, but a cover of productive drought resistant plants would work.

Everything China makes will be made by the next line of computers.

The electro scan will size you and have a perfect fit pair of jeans and boots in five minutes. Shipping and storage is a waste, local production on demand. The Van Der Graft hair center will charge your hair, make it stand on end, and laser cut to perfection.

I have been working on an education program. It is based on what you really need to know. No two are alike.

People will look back in shock that there were towns that just had some random mix of people. Maybe they had a Hospital, a University, but they still had a useless mix.

The new towns, Jazzville, Inventorville, where almost all of town is involved in one industry. Will be centers with related support services,

The old model of a town because there used to be a railroad, or stagecoach, where people used to raise peaches, has been an economic loss for generations.

Capitalist Pig and Corporate, A Corporation is not enough, nor is a Company Town, It is an economic move for all, While there is some business that makes doing it work, it would also work for other companies in that industry, like Guild Towns of old that formed around an industry, and saw to thier own food, education, shelter, clothing.

Just cutting a few head out of the herd at random is not getting the job done. We went from Craftsmen that had a lifetime of knowledge, to factory workers who needed none, and now back to a knowledge industry.

One size fits none, Industries do not last, food and water can not be taken for granted.

We need diverse living systems, Economic Systems, Educational Systems, Something has to work.