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Tollorin
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27 Mar 2017, 11:12 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
If you think logically about it, if someone broke into your house, would you be like: "Oh, HI! I'm SOOOO glad you're here!! We were just sitting-down to supper----would you like to join us?"; I don't think you would.

Campin_Cat wrote:
Yes, I'm very sensitive----to the point of almost making someone else's troubles, my own----it was all I could do, not to out-and-out BAWL when they showed that woman in the truck, behind bars, having to leave her kids, behind, because they were deporting her; but, here's the thing..... Quite frankly, when you do the crime, you do the time----and, her "time" (punishment) was having to leave her kids, here, because she CHOSE to come into this country, ILLEGALLY. I mean, the whole thing about doing something illegally, is that it's a roll-of-the-dice----sometimes you win, sometimes you lose----and, IMO, it's ludicrous to blame someone else when you lose.

You should be wary of "logical" reasons to hurt peoples, as it's easy to rationalize even the most vile of things, and the smarter you are the more easy it is. Balancing rationality and feelings is a tricky thing, but voluntary hurting or deporting millions of peoples, outside of the necessity of war (And wars should certainly not be started lightly), is a big no to me.
Beside your comparison to house broking is flawed, as immigrants, legals or not, only want to live in their country of adoption and not stealing things in it. Saying that they are "stealing jobs" is also dishonest, as jobs must be created to give them access to foods, housing, education, culture and a lot of other things.

It's not about "logical reasons", it's about LAWS----and, as I said before, if you break 'em, you gotta pay for that. Canada has laws regarding who / why people come there, without the government's say-so, so what's the problem? Again, we're talking about people ILLEGALLY entering our country.

You, TOO, can say "no", all-you-want----and, it doesn't matter what you say, EITHER (regarding this issue), because you're not a U.S. citizen.

Again, it's NOT about "legals or not"----this is ONLY about the "or not", part----and, they most certainly ARE stealing!! That aforementioned woman, ALONE, was being deported because she came here ILLEGALLY, and was using a made-up SSN to get a job----and, that was a job that she STOLE from a U.S. citizen (or, somebody with LEGAL papers), and I would bet almost ANYTHING, that there's THOUSANDS, more, like her.

LOL For them, "...jobs must be created"----where do you get this stuff? Are you friggin' kidding me? NOBODY has to / SHOULD be creating jobs for ILLEGALS----ESPECIALLY, when there's nobody creating jobs for U.S. citizens!!

You seem to be suffering, terribly, from poor reading comprehension, cuz I have said, time-and-time-again, "illegals"----and, STILL you wanna say, stuff like "legal or not"----so, I leave this conversation with you, here.

The immigrants who have entered in th US as illegals did it because they didn't had other way to try to get a better life, I do not view the law the way would someone like Javert, sometime this is the law that is the problem and in such case the law must be changed: in this case allowing more legal immigration from Mexico and been less severe on the selection. You're also misunderstood me about job creation; I didn't meant to said that the state should create jobs for immigrants, I meant that immigrants only being in their adoptive country mean that they are seeking homes, foods and various services and thus, if they have the mean to pay for it, bring the creation of jobs to answer to their need, as some peoples need to built them houses, grow them foods and various other things.


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EzraS
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28 Mar 2017, 1:12 am

Tollorin wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
If you think logically about it, if someone broke into your house, would you be like: "Oh, HI! I'm SOOOO glad you're here!! We were just sitting-down to supper----would you like to join us?"; I don't think you would.

Campin_Cat wrote:
Yes, I'm very sensitive----to the point of almost making someone else's troubles, my own----it was all I could do, not to out-and-out BAWL when they showed that woman in the truck, behind bars, having to leave her kids, behind, because they were deporting her; but, here's the thing..... Quite frankly, when you do the crime, you do the time----and, her "time" (punishment) was having to leave her kids, here, because she CHOSE to come into this country, ILLEGALLY. I mean, the whole thing about doing something illegally, is that it's a roll-of-the-dice----sometimes you win, sometimes you lose----and, IMO, it's ludicrous to blame someone else when you lose.

You should be wary of "logical" reasons to hurt peoples, as it's easy to rationalize even the most vile of things, and the smarter you are the more easy it is. Balancing rationality and feelings is a tricky thing, but voluntary hurting or deporting millions of peoples, outside of the necessity of war (And wars should certainly not be started lightly), is a big no to me.
Beside your comparison to house broking is flawed, as immigrants, legals or not, only want to live in their country of adoption and not stealing things in it. Saying that they are "stealing jobs" is also dishonest, as jobs must be created to give them access to foods, housing, education, culture and a lot of other things.

It's not about "logical reasons", it's about LAWS----and, as I said before, if you break 'em, you gotta pay for that. Canada has laws regarding who / why people come there, without the government's say-so, so what's the problem? Again, we're talking about people ILLEGALLY entering our country.

You, TOO, can say "no", all-you-want----and, it doesn't matter what you say, EITHER (regarding this issue), because you're not a U.S. citizen.

Again, it's NOT about "legals or not"----this is ONLY about the "or not", part----and, they most certainly ARE stealing!! That aforementioned woman, ALONE, was being deported because she came here ILLEGALLY, and was using a made-up SSN to get a job----and, that was a job that she STOLE from a U.S. citizen (or, somebody with LEGAL papers), and I would bet almost ANYTHING, that there's THOUSANDS, more, like her.

LOL For them, "...jobs must be created"----where do you get this stuff? Are you friggin' kidding me? NOBODY has to / SHOULD be creating jobs for ILLEGALS----ESPECIALLY, when there's nobody creating jobs for U.S. citizens!!

You seem to be suffering, terribly, from poor reading comprehension, cuz I have said, time-and-time-again, "illegals"----and, STILL you wanna say, stuff like "legal or not"----so, I leave this conversation with you, here.

The immigrants who have entered in th US as illegals did it because they didn't had other way to try to get a better life, I do not view the law the way would someone like Javert, sometime this is the law that is the problem and in such case the law must be changed: in this case allowing more legal immigration from Mexico and been less severe on the selection. You're also misunderstood me about job creation; I didn't meant to said that the state should create jobs for immigrants, I meant that immigrants only being in their adoptive country mean that they are seeking homes, foods and various services and thus, if they have the mean to pay for it, bring the creation of jobs to answer to their need, as some peoples need to built them houses, grow them foods and various other things.


I think the United States has had the most relaxed immigration standards of just about any other nation, especially Canada.

And therefore the US has taken in more than enough immigrants and refugees. America has taken in the lion's share of both, beyond anyone else.

And now that the US needs to take a break and repair itself, there's all this clamoring from nations who haven't done nearly as much for the rest of the world.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:29 am

nurseangela wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
If the USA had put forces behind those factions they likely would have been able to create a level of stability in the country. The same goes for Kosovo and Bosnia, the USA was able to achieve an end to bloodshed and peace.


Because that's worked so well for us throughout the Middle East? You still haven't answered my question as to why this duty falls to us, we're geographically distant from all of those places and aren't obligated by any treaty or post-colonial duty. Is the rest of the world so millitarily inept that only the US can act in this peacekeeping role?

Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


(Hey, Mr. D.! :mrgreen:)


Have you checked our debt lately?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


We also no longer have a strong military. HOWEVER, Trump plans to change that. :mrgreen:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews. ... s.amp.html

From the article :

"President Trump has pledged to rebuild military units like the 101 and recently announced a $54 billion increase in defense spending. Some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including from his own party, say Trump’s plans don’t go far enough to repair the damage."

The US needs to build up its own military just so we can protect ourselves - screw the rest. These other countries have people - they need to make their own armies. We might even be nice enough to sell them some of our guns then they need to go to work. We have more important things to do than protect other countries asses - we have a wall to build! (Maybe 2, depending on how Canada acts). If it was up to me, I'd build a freaking fortress.
That is the single worst lesson for the US to take from foreign policy in the modern world.

That right their is the singular most terrible piece of mentality for the modern world. Under Nurseangela's mentality the world would be broken and torn apart.

In Kosovo, in 1999 the Yugoslav dictator Slobodan Milosevic attempted to conduct a genocide against the Albanian ethnic population. Thanks to US airstrikes this genocide was stopped the Yugoslav forces withdrew and Kosovo was granted self determination. But imagine if things had gone the other way, if the US had not intervene hundreds of thousands of Albanians would have died in terrible massacres all due to US inaction. The simple fact is that US complacency in the world will expose hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children to the most terrible atrocities.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:33 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?


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Shahunshah
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28 Mar 2017, 1:39 am

Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?
The European community failed to act in Rwanda, they failed to act in Bosnia, how can we rely on them?

Was the Kosovo war worth the 47 casualties NATO had in that area. Hell yes! 47 deaths for saving hundreds of thousands is great.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:44 am

Shahunshah wrote:

Was the Kosovo war worth the 47 casualties NATO had in that area. Hell yes! 47 deaths for saving hundreds of thousands is great.


That costs us billions of dollars, trillions if you count the sunk costs, and that's money that could be spent making our own lives better, or, say, paying for a real healthcare system, but instead we have tied up "policing" the rest of the world that can't seem to take care of their own messes; how is that remotely fair to America?


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EzraS
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28 Mar 2017, 1:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?


Yes exactly. United States complacency. Complacent compared to who? Who has done more for the world than the US? What nation has shed more blood for others?

Maybe it's time for the UK Commonwealth to stop lollygagging around complaining about the US and take their turn at being the world's babysitter.

Maybe it's time for some of these needy countries to get their act together. Are we actually the superior race? I think not. It's time for some of these countries to grow up and become self sufficient.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:47 am

Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:

Was the Kosovo war worth the 47 casualties NATO had in that area. Hell yes! 47 deaths for saving hundreds of thousands is great.


That costs us billions of dollars, trillions if you count the sunk costs, and that's money that could be spent making our own lives better, or, say, paying for a real healthcare system, but instead we have tied up "policing" the rest of the world that can't seem to take care of their own messes; how is that remotely fair to America?
It has its effects but the moral cost of inaction is so much worse. We need US interventionism its a simple fact, if not than we risk seeing a repeat of the horrors of the 90s.

You can't make countries like the UK step up.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:50 am

EzraS wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?


Yes exactly. United States complacency. Complacent compared to who? Who has done more for the world than the US? What nation has shed more blood for others?

Maybe it's time for the UK Commonwealth to stop lollygagging around complaining about the US and take their turn at being the world's babysitter.

Maybe it's time for some of these needy countries to get their act together. Are we actually the superior race? I think not. It's time for some of these countries to grow up and become self sufficient.
The UK does do allot of intervention in favor of US policies.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:54 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?
The European community failed to act in Rwanda, they failed to act in Bosnia, how can we rely on them?

Was the Kosovo war worth the 47 casualties NATO had in that area. Hell yes! 47 deaths for saving hundreds of thousands is great.


Why do you keep going on about stuff that happened 25 years ago, when that was then and this is now.

It's time for the other fatcat countries to stop laying back and watch America do all the work.



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28 Mar 2017, 1:55 am

Shahunshah wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
If the USA had put forces behind those factions they likely would have been able to create a level of stability in the country. The same goes for Kosovo and Bosnia, the USA was able to achieve an end to bloodshed and peace.


Because that's worked so well for us throughout the Middle East? You still haven't answered my question as to why this duty falls to us, we're geographically distant from all of those places and aren't obligated by any treaty or post-colonial duty. Is the rest of the world so millitarily inept that only the US can act in this peacekeeping role?

Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


(Hey, Mr. D.! :mrgreen:)


Have you checked our debt lately?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


We also no longer have a strong military. HOWEVER, Trump plans to change that. :mrgreen:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews. ... s.amp.html

From the article :

"President Trump has pledged to rebuild military units like the 101 and recently announced a $54 billion increase in defense spending. Some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including from his own party, say Trump’s plans don’t go far enough to repair the damage."

The US needs to build up its own military just so we can protect ourselves - screw the rest. These other countries have people - they need to make their own armies. We might even be nice enough to sell them some of our guns then they need to go to work. We have more important things to do than protect other countries asses - we have a wall to build! (Maybe 2, depending on how Canada acts). If it was up to me, I'd build a freaking fortress.
That is the single worst lesson for the US to take from foreign policy in the modern world.

That right their is the singular most terrible piece of mentality for the modern world. Under Nurseangela's mentality the world would be broken and torn apart.

In Kosovo, in 1999 the Yugoslav dictator Slobodan Milosevic attempted to conduct a genocide against the Albanian ethnic population. Thanks to US airstrikes this genocide was stopped the Yugoslav forces withdrew and Kosovo was granted self determination. But imagine if things had gone the other way, if the US had not intervene hundreds of thousands of Albanians would have died in terrible massacres all due to US inaction. The simple fact is that US complacency in the world will expose hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children to the most terrible atrocities.


There comes a time when one has to think about themselves otherwise, they will go down with the ship. America is a sinking ship right now and that is another reason I voted for Trump. America has to be first for a change. Things keep going the way they have and the US will become a third world country and no better than the countries we are trying to help while other countries like China and Russia take over and rule the world. I'm for America first and if people think I'm being cold and heartless, I really don't give a crap anymore. I'm tired of our military dying for ungrateful people who always seem to "expect" that America will be there to help. With Trump in the White House, our military is going to be right where they should be - home where they are wanted, appreciated and taken care of. .


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EzraS
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28 Mar 2017, 2:00 am

Shahunshah wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?


Yes exactly. United States complacency. Complacent compared to who? Who has done more for the world than the US? What nation has shed more blood for others?

Maybe it's time for the UK Commonwealth to stop lollygagging around complaining about the US and take their turn at being the world's babysitter.

Maybe it's time for some of these needy countries to get their act together. Are we actually the superior race? I think not. It's time for some of these countries to grow up and become self sufficient.
The UK does do allot of intervention in favor of US policies.


Why does it always have to be US policies? I think the rest of the world is way way too dependent on the US.

I think it's time to cut the apron strings.



Last edited by EzraS on 28 Mar 2017, 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shahunshah
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28 Mar 2017, 2:02 am

nurseangela wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
If the USA had put forces behind those factions they likely would have been able to create a level of stability in the country. The same goes for Kosovo and Bosnia, the USA was able to achieve an end to bloodshed and peace.


Because that's worked so well for us throughout the Middle East? You still haven't answered my question as to why this duty falls to us, we're geographically distant from all of those places and aren't obligated by any treaty or post-colonial duty. Is the rest of the world so millitarily inept that only the US can act in this peacekeeping role?

Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


(Hey, Mr. D.! :mrgreen:)


Have you checked our debt lately?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


We also no longer have a strong military. HOWEVER, Trump plans to change that. :mrgreen:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews. ... s.amp.html

From the article :

"President Trump has pledged to rebuild military units like the 101 and recently announced a $54 billion increase in defense spending. Some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including from his own party, say Trump’s plans don’t go far enough to repair the damage."

The US needs to build up its own military just so we can protect ourselves - screw the rest. These other countries have people - they need to make their own armies. We might even be nice enough to sell them some of our guns then they need to go to work. We have more important things to do than protect other countries asses - we have a wall to build! (Maybe 2, depending on how Canada acts). If it was up to me, I'd build a freaking fortress.
That is the single worst lesson for the US to take from foreign policy in the modern world.

That right their is the singular most terrible piece of mentality for the modern world. Under Nurseangela's mentality the world would be broken and torn apart.

In Kosovo, in 1999 the Yugoslav dictator Slobodan Milosevic attempted to conduct a genocide against the Albanian ethnic population. Thanks to US airstrikes this genocide was stopped the Yugoslav forces withdrew and Kosovo was granted self determination. But imagine if things had gone the other way, if the US had not intervene hundreds of thousands of Albanians would have died in terrible massacres all due to US inaction. The simple fact is that US complacency in the world will expose hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children to the most terrible atrocities.


There comes a time when one has to think about themselves otherwise, they will go down with the ship. America is a sinking ship right now and that is another reason I voted for Trump. America has to be first for a change. Things keep going the way they have and the US will become a third world country and no better than the countries we are trying to help while other countries like China and Russia take over and rule the world. I'm for America first and if people think I'm being cold and heartless, I really don't give a crap anymore. I'm tired of our military dying for ungrateful people who always seem to "expect" that America will be there to help. With Trump in the White House, our military is going to be right where they should be - home where they are wanted, appreciated and taken care of. .

America is a superpower and is the richest country. It can afford to have its military and has done so for the longest time. America even at its best times has always had a strong military presence overseas.

Tell me Nurseangela how do you define whether or whether not an action is good.



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28 Mar 2017, 2:03 am

EzraS wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Because the United States has the capacity to do so, the strongest military in the world. The wealthiest country, why can't it do something like that. If they do not hundreds of thousands of people die it is for the greater good.


What happens if we decide that we're tired of dying for other people and that we're just going to protect our own territory and that's it? Is anyone else going to step up?


Yes exactly. United States complacency. Complacent compared to who? Who has done more for the world than the US? What nation has shed more blood for others?

Maybe it's time for the UK Commonwealth to stop lollygagging around complaining about the US and take their turn at being the world's babysitter.

Maybe it's time for some of these needy countries to get their act together. Are we actually the superior race? I think not. It's time for some of these countries to grow up and become self sufficient.
The UK does do allot of intervention in favor of US policies.


Why does it always have to be US policies? I think the rest of the world is way way too dependent on the US.

I think it's time to cut the apron strings.
Much of the world has no choice but to be dependent on US policies. If your an Albanian living in Kosovo you don't have any choice but to be dependent.



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28 Mar 2017, 2:07 am

Sorry if I am oversimplifying your position but this is the way I see it you want the US to not intervene globally in order for citizens to keep on to what they got, but at the expense of those you stand to lose everything.



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28 Mar 2017, 2:10 am

Shahunshah wrote:
[America is a superpower and is the richest country. It can afford to have its military and has done so for the longest time. America even at its best times has always had a strong military presence overseas


America has done more than its fair share. Time for other nations to become wealthier and more powerful. The United States has shed more than enough blood overseas for countries who can't behave themselves.