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Fnord
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30 Jul 2019, 9:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It means that in 1933, someone described a fictional extra-terrestrial species, and that this description has been used by conspiracy theorists and other nutters ever since.
Actually there's quite a gap between the book being published in Swedish in 1933 and Betty Hill's description of greys some 35 years later in Maryland USA.
The 'gap' is irrelevant. The export of book translations happens. 35 years is more than enough time for this. After all, the book "Might Is Right, or The Survival of the Fittest" was published in 1890, and it inspired the Gilroy shooter to murder 3 people just a few days ago, and "Mein Kampf" is still inspiring right-wing nutters today. I say that it is possible that someone who read "The Unknown Danger" may have either prompted the Hills, or conspired with them to produce and promote their abduction hoax.


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EzraS
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30 Jul 2019, 9:39 am

I have been doing a bit of research and is being said the Hill's original description was that of short men with black hair and large noses. It changed 12 days after the airing of an Outer Limits episode called The Bellero Shield featuring this character:

Image



Last edited by EzraS on 30 Jul 2019, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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30 Jul 2019, 9:40 am

EzraS wrote:
I have been doing a bit of research and is being said the Hill's original description was that of short men with black hair and large noses. It changed 12 days after the airing of a Outer Limits episode called The Bellero Shield ...
Alleged witnesses who change their testimonies are considered unreliable.


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naturalplastic
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30 Jul 2019, 2:52 pm

EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
I love infographics.


You would keel over from heat stroke and dehydration before you would even be able to confront the armed guards.


Many people including those who work at Area 51 inhabit that and identical environments year round. I have stayed one to several days in some of them such as Beatty, Indian Springs and Tonopah.


Why did you bother to make such a stupid post?

Niether you, nor they "inhabit' such an environment. You are not a Bedouin nomad who lives in tent in the desert..
You have air conditioning, are in shade, as are the employees of Ceasar's Palace, and of Area 51.

And even Bedouins sleep in their tents in the day, and move their caravans at night.

Am talking about marching like an army across miles of the desert landscape mid day exposed to the summer sun. A hundred thousand folks of varying ages and health statuses. Moving past successive perimeters with signs saying "don't pass..or we might use lethal force". By the time you reach the inner perimeter with the actual guys with the guns hundreds of folks would already be being flown out for heat stroke.



jimmy m
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30 Jul 2019, 3:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Am talking about marching like an army across miles of the desert landscape mid day exposed to the summer sun. A hundred thousand folks of varying ages and health statuses. Moving past successive perimeters with signs saying "don't pass..or we might use lethal force". By the time you reach the inner perimeter with the actual guys with the guns hundreds of folks would already be being flown out for heat stroke.


That is even assuming that rescue personnel (such as rescue helicopters or ambulances) would even decide to break laws and penetrate a no-fly/restricted area. If gridlock occurs at the penetration point and miles and miles of cars back up the few roadways leading to the entrance, even the ambulances could not physically move onto the base and conduct rescue operations.

This will then become a mass casualty event. It may be a joke to some people, but to others it will become a death experience.


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EzraS
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30 Jul 2019, 5:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
I love infographics.


You would keel over from heat stroke and dehydration before you would even be able to confront the armed guards.


Many people including those who work at Area 51 inhabit that and identical environments year round. I have stayed one to several days in some of them such as Beatty, Indian Springs and Tonopah.


Why did you bother to make such a stupid post?

Niether you, nor they "inhabit' such an environment. You are not a Bedouin nomad who lives in tent in the desert..
You have air conditioning, are in shade, as are the employees of Ceasar's Palace, and of Area 51.

And even Bedouins sleep in their tents in the day, and move their caravans at night.

Am talking about marching like an army across miles of the desert landscape mid day exposed to the summer sun. A hundred thousand folks of varying ages and health statuses. Moving past successive perimeters with signs saying "don't pass..or we might use lethal force". By the time you reach the inner perimeter with the actual guys with the guns hundreds of folks would already be being flown out for heat stroke.


Why did you make such a stupid post?

I was raised in the Nevada desert, which obviously gives me a better frame of reference for what conditions are like there. I have spent days camping out in the Nevada desert many times. I personally know people who work outdoors all day throughout the summer in the Nevada desert. I personally know people who have worked at the Nevada Test Site. I have been to a Nevada AFB several times and seen outdoor crews. Do you think hundreds of Nevada construction workers, road crew workers and landscapers etc are in the shade? People are not going to be keeling over from heat stoke September 20th. And where did you get the cockamamie idea that they are going to march all the way through to get there like Bedouin nomads? And how can you be presumptuous enough to pontificate to a Nevada native about what conditions are like in Nevada?



Last edited by EzraS on 30 Jul 2019, 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

EzraS
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30 Jul 2019, 7:47 pm

jimmy m wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Am talking about marching like an army across miles of the desert landscape mid day exposed to the summer sun. A hundred thousand folks of varying ages and health statuses. Moving past successive perimeters with signs saying "don't pass..or we might use lethal force". By the time you reach the inner perimeter with the actual guys with the guns hundreds of folks would already be being flown out for heat stroke.


That is even assuming that rescue personnel (such as rescue helicopters or ambulances) would even decide to break laws and penetrate a no-fly/restricted area. If gridlock occurs at the penetration point and miles and miles of cars back up the few roadways leading to the entrance, even the ambulances could not physically move onto the base and conduct rescue operations.

This will then become a mass casualty event. It may be a joke to some people, but to others it will become a death experience.


For 33 years up to 70,000 people have attended the annual Burning Man event held out in the Nevada desert from August 25 to September 2.

Image



jimmy m
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30 Jul 2019, 8:58 pm

EzraS wrote:
For 33 years up to 70,000 people have attended the annual Burning Man event held out in the Nevada desert from August 25 to September 2.


The Burning Man festival has quite a bit of supporting infrastructure that supports the event.

The Department of Public Works (DPW) undertakes the massive task of building, maintaining, and cleaning up Black Rock City. The construction of this metropolis requires thousands of hours of labor by hundreds of dedicated workers, all accomplished in a month’s time, in very harsh high-desert conditions a hundred miles from the nearest source of building supplies. Transportation, food service, sanitation, material acquisition, living quarters, fuel, and equipment maintenance are just some of the tasks to be managed. Logistics alone can be a daunting challenge.

The Work Ranch has no water supply on site. In the past we were able to obtain water at no cost from property owned by Burning Man’s benevolent landlord. Potable water is essential to life on the Work Ranch, and water is also needed for dust abatement on the playa. DPW has used several million gallons each year watering the roads of Black Rock City. However, a new owner purchased the adjacent property in January and proposed to sell the water we had previously received for free at the rate of seven cents per gallon. Water was turning to gold in the desert and we didn’t have any of either. We checked all possible sources, but water is a very rare commodity in the Great Basin. Prices reflect whatever local markets will bear.

Source: DPW

So what planning, what infrastructure will be available out in the middle of the desert to support this storming Area 51? Any???


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EzraS
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30 Jul 2019, 9:13 pm

What difference does it make? It isn't really going to happen. It is a joke turned into a hoax by people claiming they are going to show up. Although I am sure a certain number of morons will actually show up. But even that does not matter because the military will have military roadblocks set up way ahead of the area. Does anyone think the military will not be able to stop it in its tracks? I mean like they have been planning for the Zombie Apocalypse for like forever.

What few people who do show up will be in air conditioned vehicles supplied with several times more water and Gatorade than they will need. Not to mention gallons of beer.

By September 20 the Nevada desert itself will not be all that more heat stroke inducing than anywhere else in the Southwest.

That is why it is planned for Sept 20 at 3 am, and not August 1 at 12 pm. At least the FB jokester was being practical along those lines.



cyberdad
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31 Jul 2019, 4:47 am

Fnord wrote:
After all, the book "Might Is Right, or The Survival of the Fittest" was published in 1890, and it inspired the Gilroy shooter to murder 3 people just a few days ago, and "Mein Kampf" is still inspiring right-wing nutters today. I say that it is possible that someone who read "The Unknown Danger" may have either prompted the Hills, or conspired with them to produce and promote their abduction hoax.[/color]


That neither proves or disproves Betty Hill evert read the book



cyberdad
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31 Jul 2019, 4:52 am

EzraS wrote:
I have been doing a bit of research and is being said the Hill's original description was that of short men with black hair and large noses. It changed 12 days after the airing of an Outer Limits episode called The Bellero Shield featuring this character:

Image


The exact details - Betty's written description of the characters in her nightmare depicted short guys with black hair and "Jimmy Durante" noses (so that bit is true) but It was only in Barney Hill's hypnosis sessions that we got the first description of skinny figures with gray skin, large bald heads, and huge black eyes. After Betty Hill heard these sessions, suddenly her own hypnosis accounts began to describe the same type of character, and from that moment on, she never again mentioned her original Jimmy Durante guys.

Regarding the Outer Limits called "The Bellero Shield" - the Hills stated they did not watch it and didn't know about it.

It should be noted that the US skeptics association have claimed that Barney had "false memory" a condition where subconciously incorporated some Hollywood alien into his memory of the incident on the road. The problem is that people with high IQ are not as susceptible to this "slip of the mind" condition and Barney Hill had a recorded IQ of 140 putting him in the genius category.



EzraS
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31 Jul 2019, 5:01 am

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It means that in 1933, someone described a fictional extra-terrestrial species, and that this description has been used by conspiracy theorists and other nutters ever since.
Actually there's quite a gap between the book being published in Swedish in 1933 and Betty Hill's description of greys some 35 years later in Maryland USA.
The 'gap' is irrelevant. The export of book translations happens. 35 years is more than enough time for this. After all, the book "Might Is Right, or The Survival of the Fittest" was published in 1890, and it inspired the Gilroy shooter to murder 3 people just a few days ago, and "Mein Kampf" is still inspiring right-wing nutters today. I say that it is possible that someone who read "The Unknown Danger" may have either prompted the Hills, or conspired with them to produce and promote their abduction hoax.


The Amityville Horror came to mind earlier. That was a case where the author was pretty much in charge of what was written. It seems at best events were greatly embellished by him. And the The Interrupted Journey author John G Fuller had them under hypnosis. I do not know much about actual hypnosis, but I believe a hypnotic suggestion is a real thing.

Personally I could go either way in believing it or not at this point in time.



EzraS
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31 Jul 2019, 5:18 am

They should have picked August 20 because that is my birthday and it could be shared with a great historical event



cyberdad
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31 Jul 2019, 5:19 am

Hypnotic suggestion is possible under hypnotic regression but psychologists actually have a very poor understanding of the nature of the subconscious mind.

The vast number of members in skeptics associations who write volumes criticising alien abduction are not actually qualified (to start off with) in psychology, they are more likely chemists or physicists.



cyberdad
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31 Jul 2019, 5:20 am

EzraS wrote:
They should have picked August 20 because that is my birthday and it could be shared with a great historical event

Let me be the first to wish you an early happy birthday Ezra



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31 Jul 2019, 3:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
They should have picked August 20 because that is my birthday and it could be shared with a great historical event

Let me be the first to wish you an early happy birthday Ezra


Me, too. 8)


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