Actor Alec Baldwin shoots 2 people, killing one of them.

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Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 3:50 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I doubt anyone ever said Baldwin was the sanest guy on the planet. Just the same, Trump - even crazier - has a grudge against him for his S&L portrayals, and that is why I think what Trump says should be taken with a grain of salt. That, and the fact that Trump has a history of being a stranger to the truth.
Well, I'll be damned! I guess I am saying if Trump said the sky was blue, I'd look out the window to confirm it!

Start applying the that level of skepticism less selectively, and you'll be a long way towards being wiser about the world. There's an old journalistic adage that goes something like "if your mother tells you she loves you, check it", and I find those are good words to live by when it comes to politics and the media that covers them, everyone is always lying about something, and blindly trusting any of them just sets you up as a sucker.

Self-evident.

Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 3:58 am

cyberdad wrote:

Pepe wrote:

The ABC, here in Australia, have comedy skits where the indigenous community calls Caucasian Australians "white *unts".
Andrew Bolt finds that vulgar, also.
I find it amusing.

Does Andrew Bolt know that ABC locally produced indigenous dramas get like 20-30 viewers and of that Sky News staff make up 30% :lol:

The only people who watch indigenous programs on SBS or the ABC are largely indigenous people, Even though I am sympathetic to indigenous people's plight, I find their locally produced comedy/drama to be not that interesting or relatable but I respect their need to have their own programs.

I think Bolt overreacts sometimes.
He is an intelligent man, but there are times he is too puritanical for my liking.
I don't think he truly understands that sort of humour. :scratch:

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07 Nov 2021, 6:03 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

You'll admittedly have to find some other source other than Carlson, as he has a miserable record for unbiased, truthful reporting.
If Maddow said Trump engaged in canine vampirisms, I'd most certainly think she was in on The Onion's joke. Again, it's a matter of taking the source into consideration.

You're just proving my point, Maddow probably lies just as often as Carlson if not more so, and just like him, has had to claim in court that she does not provide straight news:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-cour ... ws-viewers

Quote:

MSNBC's top-rated host Rachel Maddow devoted a segment in 2019 to accusing the right-wing cable outlet One America News (OAN) of being a paid propaganda outlet for the Kremlin. Discussing a Daily Beast article which noted that one OAN reporter was a "Russian national” who was simultaneously writing copy for the Russian-owned outlet Sputnik on a freelance contract, Maddow escalated the allegation greatly into a broad claim about OAN's real identity and purpose: “in this case,” she announced, “the most obsequiously pro-Trump right wing news outlet in America really literally is paid Russian propaganda."

In response, OAN sued Maddow, MSNBC, and its parent corporation Comcast, Inc. for defamation, alleging that it was demonstrably false that the network, in Maddow's words, “literally is paid Russian propaganda." In an oddly overlooked ruling, an Obama-appointed federal judge, Cynthia Bashant, dismissed the lawsuit on the ground that even Maddow's own audience understands that her show consists of exaggeration, hyperbole, and pure opinion, and therefore would not assume that such outlandish accusations are factually true even when she uses the language of certainty and truth when presenting them (“literally is paid Russian propaganda").

In concluding that Maddow's statement would be understood even by her own viewers as non-factual, the judge emphasized that what Maddow does in general is not present news but rather hyperbole and exploitation of actual news to serve her liberal activism:

At least Maddow doesn't maliciously court white nationalists with truly evil conspiracy theories, such as the truly racist "replacement conspiracy," or truly dangerous and life threatening anti-vax horses**t. That is why I'll always trust her over Carlson.

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Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 2:16 pm

@ Kraichgauer
Find a link yet? :scratch:

Kraichgauer
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07 Nov 2021, 3:18 pm

Pepe wrote:

@ Kraichgauer
Find a link yet? :scratch:

No, I just go up.

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Dox47
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07 Nov 2021, 4:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, proving my point, you're basing your decision on whether to trust a journalist or not on their politics, not on their record of accuracy.

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Kraichgauer
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07 Nov 2021, 5:54 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, proving my point, you're basing your decision on whether to trust a journalist or not on their politics, not on their record of accuracy.

I'm trusting Maddow over Carlson, because Carlson has been promoting evil and dangerous ideas, which is in fact making a judgement about Carlson's record of accuracy, or lack thereof.
Again, you're being obstinate, unless you actually believe Carlson's racist tripe about "the great replacement."

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Dox47
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07 Nov 2021, 6:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm trusting Maddow over Carlson, because Carlson has been promoting evil and dangerous ideas, which is in fact making a judgement about Carlson's record of accuracy, or lack thereof.

No, it's not, and clearly you don't understand the very concepts being discussed. You don't like what Carlson says, that does not mean what he says isn't true, and your failure to distinguish the two is concerning, to say the least.

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, you're being obstinate, unless you actually believe Carlson's racist tripe about "the great replacement."

You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it does. Also, I can disbelieve a specific thing a person says while still thinking they're on balance accurate, it's not a difficult concept for most people.

I'm really starting to run out of ways to avoid stating the obvious here, in case any mods should happen to look at this exchange later.

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Kraichgauer
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07 Nov 2021, 6:39 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm trusting Maddow over Carlson, because Carlson has been promoting evil and dangerous ideas, which is in fact making a judgement about Carlson's record of accuracy, or lack thereof.

Kraichgauer wrote:

Again, you're being obstinate, unless you actually believe Carlson's racist tripe about "the great replacement."

So, you're saying Carlson is accurate, even though his "great replacement" conspiracy theory is a vile, evil racist lie??? This isn't a case where someone disagrees with you about economics or some other subject. There are some cases where crossing the line goes beyond the pale, and this is definitely one of them. Throw in Carlson's stolen election lie, and the glorification of the January 6 rioters, and it becomes obvious that he's a liar and unworthy of any trust.
Go ahead and throw a tantrum to the mods.

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DW_a_mom
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07 Nov 2021, 6:44 pm

I wouldn’t trust Carlson or Maddow without looking a lot further.

Their biases may favor or disfavor different groups, but both clearly display bias that is too extreme for my taste.

I have to agree with Dox47 that trusting mostly because of the company one keeps or the positions they espouse is foolish. Trust is earned with track record.

I have to agree with Kraichgauer that Trump’s track record says don’t trust anything he says.

But when it comes to Alex Baldwin, there are many reasons to admire him as actor, and many to be skeptical of his character as a human being. All of which comes from far more than one source.

But I still feel for him in this situation; it was a tragic accident - not his fault - and so far I haven’t seen anything beyond that which doesn’t make my eyes roll. The details are important for defining and enforcing protocol, and people were sloppy, but conspiracy theories don’t apply.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 07 Nov 2021, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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07 Nov 2021, 6:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

[
Go ahead and throw a tantrum to the mods.

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods? :roll:

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07 Nov 2021, 6:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[
Go ahead and throw a tantrum to the mods.

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods? :roll:

That I was mean to him by disagreeing with him?

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Dox47
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07 Nov 2021, 6:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

So, you're saying Carlson is accurate, even though his "great replacement" conspiracy theory is a vile, evil racist lie???

What I'm saying is that you can't judge his accuracy based on your feelings about what he's saying, you can't just say "that's vile and racist, therefore it's wrong", as those things don't correlate. Black people do commit crime out of proportion to their numbers in this country; does the fact that many racists quote that statistic make it inaccurate?

Kraichgauer wrote:

This isn't a case where someone disagrees with you about economics or some other subject. There are some cases where crossing the line goes beyond the pale, and this is definitely one of them.

Truth is truth, no matter what the subject. Are you seriously saying that some subjects shouldn't be questioned?

Kraichgauer wrote:

Throw in Carlson's stolen election lie, and the glorification of the January 6 rioters, and it becomes obvious that he's a liar and unworthy of any trust.

Maddow spent years pushing now discredited Russian collusion stories, yet you trust her, proving my point even further.

Kraichgauer wrote:

Go ahead and throw a tantrum to the mods.

You mistake my intent with that comment, I'm getting perilously close to outright stating you're not smart enough to understand what I'm saying, and I wanted it made clear I was trying to avoid having to say it so bluntly.

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07 Nov 2021, 7:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Go ahead and throw a tantrum to the mods.

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods?

That I was mean to him by disagreeing with him?

Uh-oh ... you did not cite facts, did you? If so, you are in DEEP trouble now!

:wink:

Dox47
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07 Nov 2021, 7:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods? :roll:

That it's impossible to argue with certain people without calling attention to certain deficits on their part, both moral and intellectual, and that I don't mean to be cruel, just accurate and honest.

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07 Nov 2021, 7:05 pm

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods?

You have just confessed to being unable to have a discussion without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

:lol:

At least you finally admit it!

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Actor Alec Baldwin shoots 2 people, killing one of them.