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Biden - MAGA Republicans are existential threat to democracy

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Matrix Glitch
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08 Sep 2022, 9:41 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
You think I like Bush? Heck no! He's certainly no Roosevelt----nor even a Lyndon Johnson.

Saddam Hussein did use biological weapons against the Kurds and other ethnic minorities. I don't feel our Iraq policy was correct, though.

But, from my American viewpoint, at least Bush didn't want to overthrow the whole American system. Trump doesn't like the encumbrances "forced" upon him by the democratic process. Similar to how Putin doesn't like the democratic process to restrain his crazy impulses.

Putin and Trump deserve each other.....

From my American viewpoint I think Trump really thought the election was rigged. You have to admit it was a lot different than any other election either of us remembers, due to Covid. Or so they say. I don't see any comparison between Trump and Putin in any realistic sense that matters.



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08 Sep 2022, 9:57 am

AFAIK, it was the most controlled elections in the history of the US - exactly because of the accusations.

Numerous controls and their results didn't stop Trump from insisting he won and trying to take the power back. That's where he crossed the line of being a direct threat to democracy in its very foundations.

BTW - here, we have international cooperations of supervising each other's elections. Maybe it's adaptable to US realities?


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Hedly
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08 Sep 2022, 10:06 am

The problem with American system of government is that it was long ago hijacked by the billionaire class. While I don't believe actual election fraud is a thing, the system is rigged and good candidates have no chance of changing anything.

Our democracy died a long time ago. Voting is a joke, it's a farce.



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08 Sep 2022, 10:10 am

Trump would only make it worse....



Matrix Glitch
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08 Sep 2022, 10:39 am

In Hedly's scenario Trump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to make it anything. This is also George Carlin's perspective.



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08 Sep 2022, 10:41 am

magz wrote:
AFAIK, it was the most controlled elections in the history of the US - exactly because of the accusations.

Numerous controls and their results didn't stop Trump from insisting he won and trying to take the power back. That's where he crossed the line of being a direct threat to democracy in its very foundations.

BTW - here, we have international cooperations of supervising each other's elections. Maybe it's adaptable to US realities?

It seemed mighty funky to me as it took place. Not saying rigged. But definitely highly unusual.



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08 Sep 2022, 10:47 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
In Hedly's scenario Trump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to make it anything. This is also George Carlin's perspective.


Once something is completely broken, there's not more damage you can do to it.



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08 Sep 2022, 10:48 am

Hedly wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
In Hedly's scenario Trump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to make it anything. This is also George Carlin's perspective.
Once something is completely broken, there's not more damage you can do to it.
I think you have no idea how bad a state can become.
We here still have living memories of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.
"Broken" states - let's look at French Revolution or Bolshevik Revolution, or Khmer Rouge.
Bloodbath and terror.
It can get worse.
Always.


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08 Sep 2022, 11:23 am

magz wrote:
Hedly wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
In Hedly's scenario Trump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to make it anything. This is also George Carlin's perspective.
Once something is completely broken, there's not more damage you can do to it.
I think you have no idea how bad a state can become.
We here still have living memories of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.
"Broken" states - let's look at French Revolution or Bolshevik Revolution, or Khmer Rouge.
Bloodbath and terror.
It can get worse.
Always.


I get your point, but once a country begins to collapse, there's really nothing more to be done unless the people rise up and exact a change. The U.S. is an authoritarian system a this point. Trump could speed up the decline, but it's only a matter of time before it all goes down the tubes.



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08 Sep 2022, 11:27 am

But is there really a "decline"?
No conutry in the history was ever perfect and American democracy, an experiment started over 240 years ago, went surprisingly well for such a wild idea (which it was at the time of founding), yet always struggling with crises every now and then.
What is USA declining from?


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08 Sep 2022, 11:29 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
AFAIK, it was the most controlled elections in the history of the US - exactly because of the accusations.

Numerous controls and their results didn't stop Trump from insisting he won and trying to take the power back. That's where he crossed the line of being a direct threat to democracy in its very foundations.

BTW - here, we have international cooperations of supervising each other's elections. Maybe it's adaptable to US realities?

It seemed mighty funky to me as it took place. Not saying rigged. But definitely highly unusual.

Mmhmm, the most secure election in US history that's been audited 8 ways from Sunday was "funky," because the orange guy refused to accept he lost. :lol:


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08 Sep 2022, 11:41 am

magz wrote:
But is there really a "decline"?
No conutry in the history was ever perfect and American democracy, an experiment started over 240 years ago, went surprisingly well for such a wild idea (which it was at the time of founding), yet always struggling with crises every now and then.
What is USA declining from?


I think it is in a state of decline because if you look at history, we're in that late stage of empire. We are living in a constant war economy thanks to the Military Industrial Complex, and we have a government that is being run by corporate interests. It's not a model that can be sustained for much longer.



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08 Sep 2022, 11:43 am

But what is the decline from? What was the healthy state before the decline started? When was it?


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08 Sep 2022, 11:51 am

magz wrote:
But what is the decline from? What was the healthy state before the decline started? When was it?


I don't think it was ever entirely healthy. There's always been a level of corruption from the ruling elite even at the beginning. It's just gotten far worse in the last 40 years, the neoliberal age.



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08 Sep 2022, 11:55 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
AFAIK, it was the most controlled elections in the history of the US - exactly because of the accusations.

Numerous controls and their results didn't stop Trump from insisting he won and trying to take the power back. That's where he crossed the line of being a direct threat to democracy in its very foundations.

BTW - here, we have international cooperations of supervising each other's elections. Maybe it's adaptable to US realities?

It seemed mighty funky to me as it took place. Not saying rigged. But definitely highly unusual.

Mmhmm, the most secure election in US history that's been audited 8 ways from Sunday was "funky," because the orange guy refused to accept he lost. :lol:

It seemed funky, screwy, unusual et al to me while it was taking place. And I wasn't listening to the big bad orange man at the time. All you know about how secure it was is based on what they told you to believe.



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08 Sep 2022, 12:02 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
magz wrote:
AFAIK, it was the most controlled elections in the history of the US - exactly because of the accusations.

Numerous controls and their results didn't stop Trump from insisting he won and trying to take the power back. That's where he crossed the line of being a direct threat to democracy in its very foundations.

BTW - here, we have international cooperations of supervising each other's elections. Maybe it's adaptable to US realities?

It seemed mighty funky to me as it took place. Not saying rigged. But definitely highly unusual.

Mmhmm, the most secure election in US history that's been audited 8 ways from Sunday was "funky," because the orange guy refused to accept he lost. :lol:

It seemed funky, screwy, unusual et al to me while it was taking place. And I wasn't listening to the big bad orange man at the time. All you know about how secure it was is based on what they told you to believe.

All you know about it seeming funky was based on what they told you to believe, too. Chances are highly unlikely you were all over the country observing the election as it happened.

At least audits have all been reviewed by elections officials and judges. If there was anything funky, trumplestiltskins 60 something lawsuits claiming election fraud wouldn't have gone absolutely nowhere.


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