Shooting at LGBT nightclub in Florida, 20 injured

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Actually, if you read my previous posts, I cited statistics from the entire middle east, including the Gulf states who are far from "war torn". I am only citing Afghanistan specifically because it's the nationality of the shooter.


You're still dodging my point about public support behind these groups and their actions. A majority of Africans don't support the points being the LRA, etc. While a majority of Muslims oppose ISIS (I believe?) Many still practice and observe the same basic things ISIS is fighting for.

You're still dodging my point about statistics and the cultures that promote these groups.

You're, again, dodging my point about support; Maybe 3% of Christians are "radical" as you put it. The same can be said for 50% of Muslims (perhaps more) in the middle east. Are these not different enough for you?


Got sources for this? Because here's 10 countries where being homosexual can have you put to death - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... y-death-2/

You want a common factor? They're all majority Muslim, and all practice (in some way) Shariah..

But obviously you, fair internet poster, know more than these Muslim countries where having homosexual intercourse can have you killed. You know more about shariah law then these countries, surely?

And my point, is that these laws don't pass without some form of popular support or at least a good bit of people believing that homosexuality should be punishable by death. The government's of these countries don't enact laws like these unless at least a good bit of the country wants it.

But go ahead, continue saying it's not the Shariah system and it's just 'extremist groups' running all of these countries. Was Christianity like this once? Sure, 3-400 years ago much of Europe had similar laws in medievel times. But there wasn't a place with more modernized values for the people of medievel europe to flee to, and, if there was, I'm sure they wouldn't of let the medievel europeans in because their culture wouldn't work in a modernized society.

Do I think the issue is Islam itself? No, the teachings can be modified to work in modern society, just as Christianity 500 years ago would certainly be 'radical' by today's standards, and some small sects of Christianity still are, but this cultural "aging" needs to happen before people with these cultural norms are let into modern society, not after.

I dunno...he also reportedly visited Disneyworld a number of times alone during that time period. I wonder if he was scouting out both locations.

Still, as someone who spent half her life repressed by conservative religion, I've seen first hand how it can damage someone. My damage was directed inward; perhaps he had a stronger sense of Self or entitlement and so it was directed outward?

That's the 4th or 5th time someone has tried "argument by Jim Jefferies", we beat him up so badly in PPR that I don't care to do it again, that horse is thoroughly dead.

I wouldn't doubt it; the biggest homophobes are also the biggest closet cases.

It is also possible that he was meticulous in his planning and scoping out the location/possible victims to maximize casualties...

Anders Behring Breivik used at least two years - perhaps even 9 years by his own (very unreliable) account - to plan the 2011 Norway Attacks, and even bought a vegetable cultivating farm, so authorities wouldn't be alerted by his large purchases of bomb-making materials.

And Mateen was a trained security guard... He would thus likely have at least a basic understanding of the need to evaluate physical security, escape routes etc. before carrying out the attack...

The efficiency of the attack also suggests that Mateen had been well-prepared, as he killed 49 people on his own. By comparison, 9 assailants killed 130 people during the November 2015 Paris terror attacks (the Bataclan), and 2 assailants killed 14 people during the 2015 San Bernardino attack.

Anyway, I digress... A lot more information will likely surface as the investigation continues...

This seems like the most likely scenario to me, that or meticulous planning.

He wouldn't have been on gay dating apps in order to plan. He also wouldn't have been at the club multiple times every month for years. That doesn't fit any profile of someone who is planning an attack, it fits the profile of someone who is gay or bi themselves. No terrorist needs to stake out a location that many times. It isn't like the club had any security force that he had to figure out how to overcome. He is clearly a closet self hating case.

I'm guessing when he saw the two guys kissing in public it triggered him to become jealous and angry that they were happy and able to express their affection and sexual orientation in public view.He didn't have the guts to do this himself so he wanted to destroy those who could.

I don't understand the point of saying he might of been a closet homosexual, that does not mean he did not have terrorist sympathies which he expressed on numerous occasions going back to 9/11 not to mention his 2 fairly recent visits to Saudi Arabia. He declared allegiance to Islamic State and they have taken credit for this attack, enough said I think.

He has likely seen two men kiss MANY times. According to those at the club he's witness a lot more than that.

He also pledged allegiance to Al-Nusra and Hezbollah but clearly knew very little about any of those groups, because the former two groups are deathly opposed to ISIS and vice versa. That is why the FBI closed its investigations of him twice before.

And now, there is a new twist to this matter.

In the aftermath of the Orlando, Fla., shootings, the U.S. Supreme Court might agree this week to consider two cases regarding the extent of the Second Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America, according to CNN.com ( http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/ ... index.html ).

The first case, Shew v. Malloy, U. S. No. 15-1030 (2016), asks the Court to consider a Connecticut prohibition of certain semi-automatic firearms and large-capacity ammunition magazines.

The second case, Voisine v. United States, U. S. No. 14-10154 (2015), asked the Court to consider an appeal from a Maine resident who says he shouldn’t have been stripped of his ability to possess a firearm despite a prior domestic-violence conviction in state court.

While the Court is currently enjoying a membership of just eight justices due to the recent death of former Justice Scalia, its determinations in these matters are likely to be split evenly between the justices, 4 to 4. In split decisions, the Court’s opinions don’t have national effect, but only affirm or deny a subordinate court opinion within its juridiction (federal- or appellate-court districts).

In both cases, the petitioners (Shew and Voisine) lost at the relevant appellate courts, so, unless the Court’s justices vote for each petitioner with five members or more, the appellate opinions would remain as rendered.

I believe that a Court majority will determine that the appellate opinion in Shew lacked precedence … especially after the Court’s determination on March 21, 2016, about the case Caetano v. Massachusetts, U. S. No. 14–10078 (2016), wherein a unanimous Court reiterated the key determinations that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,” District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U. S. 570, 582 (2008), and that this “Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States,” McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U. S. 742, 750 (2010).

I believe, however, that Voisine would likely fail a majority Court vote because of my understanding of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968.

On the other hand, the justices might delay acting on one or both cases until the appointment of a new associate justice is confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

One, al-Nusra isn't 'deathly opposed' to ISIS. They are al-Qaeda and are essentially fighting on the same side fighting against the Syrian government and the Kurds. The only difference between the two is that al-Qaeda doesn't recognize the caliphate, they work together and if you find yourself in the hands of al-Nusra then you could very well find yourself in the hands of ISIS as al-Nusra sells weapons and prisoners to ISIS. This has been the main problem with arming ANY Syrian rebel faction since they are almost all dominated by Islamists who have absolutely no loyalty to the groups they fighting under, we give these people training and weapons then the second they find themselves in the warzone they sell it all to ISIS. They are mercenaries and Islamists in Syria.

Hezbollah's reputation in the Muslim world has completely changed over the last few years, they had a honeymoon of sorts after resisting the Israeli invasion into Lebanon. They as well as Iran had a lot of support in Palestine but this was before the war in Syria became a sectarian war. I don't think it really matters if he contradicted himself, how ideological consistent a terrorist is doesn't matter if the end result is the same.

in related news, Texas police have just shot a Somali man who tried to take a walmart hostage: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/14/re ... lmart.html

Last edited by docfox on 14 Jun 2016, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SWAT did their job and ended his existence before hopefully anybody got hurt

wonder if it's 'workplace violence' or inspired by Islamic extremism

Or it caused him to feel sexual excitement that he spent his whole life trying to repress, and thereby believed he'd be destroying that secret part of himself if he could kill gays.