Actor Alec Baldwin shoots 2 people, killing one of them.

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Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 10:28 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I mean, what is he going to tell the mods?

That it's impossible to argue with certain people without calling attention to certain deficits on their part, both moral and intellectual, and that I don't mean to be cruel, just accurate and honest.

You have just confessed to being unable to have a discussion without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

:lol:

At least you finally admit it!

Saying someone is stupid or an ignoramus is a personal attack.
Saying someone has difficulty with reasoning is an observation.
I hope you can see the distinction.
I can elaborate if you wish. :mrgreen:

I would suggest it is best to avoid saying either.

You can say “you don’t seem to be following my reasoning. Let me try a different explanation.”

When that doesn’t work, “you still aren’t seeing what I meant. I don’t know how else to communicate it.”

Phrase in a way that shows it as a communication problem, not either person’s fault. Fault does not need to be assigned, and intelligence does not need to be maligned.

Outside readers can reach their own conclusions on where the communication problem originates if that is what one is worried about.

You seem to be patronising, here.
Is my comment a personal attack or an observation? :scratch:

Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 10:47 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Saying someone “has difficulty with reasoning” is also a personal attack. It is an attack on a person’s cognitive capacity.

Perhaps in your mind, but not mine.
What seems to be the problem here is that some people have a problem with autistic honesty.

If I can make a rational/logical argument that objectively justifies my thinking, I will do so.
This is done all the time in formal debates.
I'm surprised you didn't know that.

kraftiekortie wrote:

The basis for someone allegedly having “difficulty with reasoning” is that the person allegedly having that “difficulty” doesn’t agree with the one alleging it.

On many occasions, I have been accused of a bonafide right-winger with the accuser using a "binary" argument that you are either left or right and can't be an independent.
I made the simplest observation that I had major problems with aspects of the right-wing narrative.
The person couldn't seem to comprehend where I was coming from.

Either they were blinded by hyperpartisanship, lied, or had difficulty understanding the concept.
I came to the conclusion that it was the last consideration.

So, if a person truly does have a problem "connecting the dots", it is wrong to point that out?
Perhaps for you, but not for me, especially when someone has initiated an aggressive counter position.
I hope you aren't suggesting pointing out the Truth is politically incorrect?

Also, this is an autistic forum, and those on the spectrum have a *tendency* to be simply honest.
Please don't judge us using an NT value system.

kraftiekortie wrote:

If I don’t agree that January 6th was merely a “protest,” then I have a “difficulty with reasoning,” according to a person who believes that January 6th was merely a “protest.”

When you ignore the facts, yes.
Simples.

Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 10:51 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Great popcorn material. But I had to scroll up to the title of this thread to recall what it used to be about.

Brictoria
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07 Nov 2021, 11:24 pm

Pepe wrote:

Wait until they discover the concept of a person being able to present a legitimate argument from a side they do not agree with, in order to provide balance to a discussion around a given subject...

Pepe
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07 Nov 2021, 11:42 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Wait until they discover the concept of a person being able to present a legitimate argument from a side they do not agree with, in order to provide balance to a discussion around a given subject...

Embracing "denial" is easier, for some.

Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 12:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Coulda fooled me.

That's not hard, even you can do it, in fact you're doing it right now.

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Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 12:19 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Remember that best action in those situations is WALK AWAY.

If people are being dense, it doesn’t usually help anything to point it out, “honest” or not.

(Not to mention, the question of who is being dense v who is failing to communicate is quite subjective, and not an item of fact)

I've tried it your way for the better part of 10 years, and all that has been accomplished is that the board has been surrendered to the densest and loudest posters who are the most willing to ignore contradicting information and turn this place into an echo chamber. Also, you don't like misinformation, why are you willing to tolerate it here? Should I not call it out in the harshest terms when I see it?

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Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 1:38 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

This really goes off topic but the whole issue of potential collusion with Russia isn’t really resolved because key information has never been accessed and key witnesses stonewalled or lied. I don’t trust reporting in either side that treats it as resolved. Too many derivatives never investigated at all because of the successful stonewalling and congressional limitation of investigation scope. Claims of innocent only arise because it hasn’t been proven (and probably never will be). Claims of guilt lack reliable proof. The most honest reporting IMHO recognizes that.

This really is too far afield even for this train-wreck of a thread, but I have to admit I'm getting a bit annoyed by this thing you're doing here, this "I kinda remember something that disproves what you're saying, but I can't really recall it at the moment, but I'm not going to believe you anyway" thing that you do with Russian collusion or Hunter Biden, it makes me feel like it would be a waste of my time to spend any effort at all trying to show you my information. It's not quite as bad as what I'm objecting to with Kraichgauer here, that sheer reality bending refusal to engage with conflicting information, but it's similar, in that I think you really don't want to know, that it would actually be painful to know that the president might be a crook, or that the previous president wasn't as bad in some ways as he was portrayed, or that the media is even less trustworthy than you thought. You might even be right, I view the media these days as a wilderness of mirrors, to borrow a phrase, and I can't say that it makes my life any better, it may even make it worse, but I'm also more aware of what's actually going on in the world, and I consider that valuable.

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Kraichgauer
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08 Nov 2021, 1:45 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I have no problem with engaging with conflicting information. My problem is when I'm told I have to accept a viewpoint I find completely wrong, to the point where my intelligence is questioned.

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Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 1:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I have no problem with engaging with conflicting information. My problem is when I'm told I have to accept a viewpoint I find completely wrong, to the point where my intelligence is questioned.

You don't engage with material, you rationalize it away or change the subject if it doesn't fit in with your worldview. I'm not questioning your intelligence because you won't accept my worldview, I'm questioning it because you can't even understand my questions, or you're pretending not to in order to avoid answering them, which is even worse.

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DW_a_mom
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08 Nov 2021, 1:56 am

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I can’t disagree that my way of sorting and holding information has to come across as annoying. And I can’t disagree that there comes a time with some new stories that I just don’t feel digging further is worth the effort. Not because I don’t want to know, but because I don’t see how nailing it down could change anything, and unless we’re retired with endless hours on our hands, we all have to pick and choose where we invest our curiosity. So I do pick and choose.

But there is a simple reality involved here that may or may not have anything to do with Russian collusion: people don’t stonewall and pull the tricks Trump did to hinder the Mueller investigation if they have nothing to hide. Trump is hiding something, and we can’t say if it has anything to do with Russia or not because he won the game and kept the prying eyes out.

How anyone can say anything other than “we will never know” is beyond me. Investigate it to death, report it to death, but something happened Trump worked hard to keep us from discovering, and people went to jail to help him do so. The only people who know what that something is aren’t talking.

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Kraichgauer
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08 Nov 2021, 1:59 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I have no problem with engaging with conflicting information. My problem is when I'm told I have to accept a viewpoint I find completely wrong, to the point where my intelligence is questioned.

No, you just don't like my answers to your questions.
This argument has long since lost my interest, and is only becoming more and more irritating. You can argue with the static from here on.

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Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 2:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

No, you just don't like my answers to your questions.

You never answered my questions, that's the problem, and the fact that you don't seem to realize you didn't answer them is a bigger one.

Kraichgauer wrote:

This argument has long since lost my interest, and is only becoming more and more irritating. You can argue with the static from here on.

Nothing says "I'm uninterested" like multiple near instant responses...

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Kraichgauer
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08 Nov 2021, 2:07 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Thank you for stating the obvious! The same people who say Trump had no untoward relationship with Putin are usually the same who say he had nothing to hide with his financials, even though he's refused to release his income tax returns.

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cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 2:07 am

Dox47 wrote:

You never answered my questions, that's the problem, and the fact that you don't seem to realize you didn't answer them is a bigger one.

When we do you keep shifting the goal posts.

Dox47
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08 Nov 2021, 2:11 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

But there is a simple reality involved here that may or may not have anything to do with Russian collusion: people don’t stonewall and pull the tricks Trump did to hinder the Mueller investigation if they have nothing to hide. Trump is hiding something, and we can’t say if it has anything to do with Russia or not because he won the game and kept the prying eyes out.

How anyone can say anything other than “we will never know” is beyond me. Investigate it to death, report it to death, but something happened Trump worked hard to keep us from discovering, and people went to jail to help him do so. The only people who know what that something is aren’t talking.

That sounds like you're insisting that a negative be proven in order to put the fake scandal to rest. I don't care what Trump pulled to obstruct, that could just be Trump being Trump, the fact that the whole investigation was built on a fake dossier bought with Clinton campaign oppo money, whose primary source was just arrested for lying to the FBI ought to shake your faith that anything happened, read those Greenwald and Taibbi links I posted, that's just the tip of the iceberg on this thing, the real story is the media collusion on it.

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Actor Alec Baldwin shoots 2 people, killing one of them.