Just when you thought Glenn was crazy enough...

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Inuyasha
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22 Mar 2011, 11:19 pm

Nil_Nil wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nil_Nil wrote:

Good luck. The world was flat at one time! What was the mainstream thinking at the time and what tactics were being used to discredit the idea? Sure there are some loons out there and History has a funny way of repeating itself. Looking at the role the media plays in countries that have marginal political freedoms, I think its a good idea to get news from many different sources.

Its kinda of funny how Fox News has become the "corporate news outlet" while NBC is owned by GE and pushes a green agenda while colluding with the Govt. to ban a certain kind of light bulb and profit grossly from the act. And, if anyone dies from the toxic components of this new light bulb, then GE has the Govt. to guard its back when it comes to class action lawsuits. Beck may be crazy, or his words may sound crazy, but they're just words, not documented lefty craziness that has failed in every other country it has been attempted. Oh well, lets burn our food while we're at it while people starve and watch History repeat itself once again. Social engineers might want to get out of engineering and stay in the Liberal Arts department, because failure on this scale is unforgivable. My two cents. Good Luck.

The minuscule mercury content and its health threat has been completely overblown by the lunatic fringe. If I'm wrong, show me some legitimate documentation. And no, just because Glenn Beck says so doesn't count.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If you break a bulb, the EPA suggests turning off your air conditioning/heating, have all pets/people leave the room or house, sweep up the glass and dust into sealed bag and dispose. Break an old style bulb and ignore all previously mentioned steps except sweeping up the remains. Doesn't sound overblown to me when pets and people should leave the area. Are you a GE stock holder?

Looks like Kraichgauer just got schooled. Should we give credit to Glenn Beck or Nil_Nil?

Kraichgauer
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22 Mar 2011, 11:49 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Nil_Nil wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nil_Nil wrote:

Looks like Kraichgauer just got schooled. Should we give credit to Glenn Beck or Nil_Nil?

As a matter of fact, I got my information from CNN. And since when are conservatives listening to the EPA? You guys are the ones who say they exaggerate everything.
And no, I don't own anyone's stock.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Vigilans
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22 Mar 2011, 11:58 pm

EPA Page on CFL Cleanup

Those are pretty easy steps to follow. Honestly it really is not a big deal. How often does anybody here break light bulbs, anyway?
The question is: is the added (extremely minimal) risk worth the energy savings? I would say so
Think about other appliances you have in your home that are dangerous that one takes for granted. I can't help but feel that the anti-CFL thing is almost entirely a political gambit

On the bottom of that EPA page here is a study done by the EU:
SCHER - Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks opinion on CFLs and mercury

Quote:

The SCHER is therefore of the opinion that CFLis offer a net environmental benefit as
compared with the other light bulbs considered. This could have been more equivocal
had the Hg released from disposal caused the life cycle emissions from the CFLis to
exceed that of the other light bulbs. And it is more equivocal in weighing the
environmental gains from CFLis with any risks to human lives from accidental
exposures. Often, weighing different effects across different targets is based on
expert judgements.

Quote:

As regards the impacts of mercury emissions related to CFLs, the life-cycle of CFLs
should be considered so as to weigh the risks of a mercury escape from CFLs, be it
by accidental breakage or disposal as waste (instead of an appropriate recycling)
against the reduction of mercury emissions from coal-based power plants due to the
lower electricity consumption of CFLs (Aucott et al. 2004). Available information
indicates that the reduced electricity consumption of CFLs reduces the need for
electricity, thus the electricity production would release less mercury, and such a
decrease could, on balance, save about 10% of the mercury emissions into the
environment.

Quote:

The simple assumption of a complete evaporation of the Hg content from a broken
light bulb apparently results in a wide overestimation of air concentrations of Hg over
time. Indeed, most of the released Hg may re-condense, due to the low volatility of
Hg. Measured data suggest that a broken CFL may produce Hg concentrations of 8 to
20 μg Hg/m3 for a short time after the breakage. Air concentrations rapidly decline:
concentrations ≤2 μg Hg/m3 have been measured in a house two days after an Hg
spill from a CFL. An experimental study indicates even lower concentrations, between
0.8 and 0.1 μg/m3 Hg0, depending on CFL lamp type, in a room after CFL-breakage

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Inuyasha
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23 Mar 2011, 12:05 am

Vigilans wrote:

Quote:

First, the chemicals in the new bulbs are toxic, second did you know that they can spontaneously explode and catch places on fire.

Mercury and most of its compounds are extremely toxic and are generally handled with care; in cases of spills involving mercury (such as from certain thermometers or fluorescent light bulbs) specific cleaning procedures are used to avoid toxic exposure.[83] Essentially, it is recommended to physically merge smaller droplets on hard surfaces, combining them into a single larger pool for easier removal by using an eyedropper, or by pushing it into a disposable container. Vacuum cleaners and brooms should not be used because they cause greater dispersal of the mercury. Afterwards, sulfur powder, zinc powder, or some other element that readily forms an amalgam (alloy) with mercury (e.g. finely-divided Cu or Bi) at ordinary temperatures is sprinkled over the area and subsequently collected and properly disposed of. Cleaning porous surfaces and clothing is not effective at removing all traces of mercury and it is therefore advised to discard these kinds of items should they be exposed to a mercury spill.

Mercury can be inhaled and absorbed through the skin and mucous membranes, so containers of mercury are securely sealed to avoid spills and evaporation. Heating of mercury, or compounds of mercury that may decompose when heated, is always carried out with adequate ventilation in order to avoid exposure to mercury vapor. The most toxic forms of mercury are its organic compounds, such as dimethylmercury and methylmercury. However, inorganic compounds, such as cinnabar are also highly toxic by ingestion or inhalation of the dust.[84] Mercury can cause both chronic and acute poisoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

Doesn't sound like something I would even want in my home.

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23 Mar 2011, 12:08 am

I use the EPA as a reference and you respond with a Wikipedia article on mercury? I know what mercury is. Please. Did you even read the SCHER findings? I even cited the same source on cleanup as Nil_Nil
I have some of these CFL bulbs and none have ever exploded. I have read some cheap brands have had manufacturing defects that led to the occasional 'exploding' bulb

Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2011, 12:16 am

Vigilans wrote:

I've used the new bulbs, too, and never have I had any explosions, and/or death and dismemberment occur.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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23 Mar 2011, 12:19 am

The EPA cleanup and safety procedure actually cites the SCHER findings so essentially they are saying 'they are safe, clean with caution' not unlike some household cleaners & solvents...

number5
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23 Mar 2011, 8:37 am

Vigilans wrote:

number5: Is that lemmiwinks, the gerbil king in your avatar? If it is, you rock!

It is and thanks! Easily my favorite episode, well at least in the top 3.

number5
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23 Mar 2011, 8:52 am

I'm not a huge fan of the CFL's either. I have several in my home and they do not last nearly as long as advertised. I did also break one once and went through the whole clean up and ventilate procedure. I don't think there's enough of a benefit against risk on these. LED's are ok, but the whole thing is really just a band-aid anyway. Sort of like ethanol. We need to think much bigger and put our focus on solar and wind so we can get off of the fossil fuels.

I don't think I agree with the legislation about CFL's, but to say that it's all some giant conspiracy by GE and NBC is nothing short of tin foil hat territory. The government (both dems and repubs) doesn't have the balls to go after the larger issue of fossil fuels, so they go after small changes so at least it doesn't look like their just sitting on their butts. It's the same with the deficit. Let's do away with Planned Parenthood, but we're not going to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Defense. It's all a diversion and avoidance of the big problems.

ruveyn
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23 Mar 2011, 9:25 am

number5 wrote:

My CFLs last longer than incandescents of corresponding wattage, yet cost less to light up. A double win. They last longer and they cost less. However, many CFL do not do well with variable switches. If you do have a variable switch put it in the high position and leave it there.

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Inuyasha
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23 Mar 2011, 11:32 am

ruveyn wrote:

number5 wrote:

Correct, the exploding bulbs generally occur when the light is on a variable switch.

Hornell, N.Y. — A compact fluorescent light bulb (CFL) is to blame for an accidental electrical fire in Hornell Wednesday morning, said Steuben County Fire Investigator Joe Gerych.

“Those are the lights everybody’s been telling us to use,” he said. “It blew up like a bomb. It spattered all over.”
http://www.eveningtribune.com/newsnow/x ... rnell-fire

Tom and Nancy Heim were watching TV recently, when Tom decided to turn on the floor lamp next to his recliner chair.

"I heard this loud pop...I saw what I thought was smoke, coming out o the top of the floor lamp," says Tom.

Nancy suddenly found glass in her lap. She says, "I did not see it. I just heard it, and I noticed i had glass on me."

Their concern. The bulb could have started a fire or exposed them to dangerous mercury vapor.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/money/ ... bulb-risks

I don't think the EPA has been honest with the American People and quite frankly I consider those CFL bulbs to be a major fire hazard.

Nil_Nil
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24 Mar 2011, 12:15 am

Conservative? Maybe, but I lean more on the pony tail Libertarian side.

I'm all for using less energy. Stuff is costing more and more every day without any real coherent domestic energy policy. I don't like the CFLs cuz they don't put out as much light, they contain mercury and over time the disposal and buildup of mercury in landfills can potentially create more problems. And, the CFLs don't fit most lamps!

I don't agree with the reasoning used to require CFLs in the first place. I didn't agree with the use of ethanol either. Or more specific, the Govt. getting involved and mandating it. Some places it can be beneficial but overall mandating it causes unintended consequences. Such as, requiring more fuel to be burned compared to non-ethanol gasoline to achieve the same amount of work. Gas mileage goes down but gas tax revenue increase while the engine cranks out more waste. Which is perfectly fine if you want to raise more tax revenue and think the world is overpopulated anyway and people starving to death is A OK.

The SCHER stuff is good but lacks credible data on the effects on children, primarily due to different behaviors than adults and long term data as to the effects on the environment. People are being told they can't smoke inside their own house but potential mercury exposure is OK. As, you can tell, I'm no big fan of large govt. entities that are more concerned about forcing people to do things based on pseudo-scientific BS. But, in a few years, I'll just call Central Services and wait for them to come and screw up my house. :lol:

Good Luck

Nil_Nil
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30 Mar 2011, 2:23 am

GE didn't pay any taxes. :lol:

Funny that the SCHER findings cite the EPA and the EPA sites the SCHER findings.

Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2011, 3:37 am

Nil_Nil wrote:

GE didn't pay any taxes. :lol:

Funny that the SCHER findings cite the EPA and the EPA sites the SCHER findings.

No, GE doesn't pay taxes - and they should have the federal government metaphorically bend them over, and ream 'em up the ass!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Nil_Nil
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30 Mar 2011, 4:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nil_Nil wrote:

GE didn't pay any taxes. :lol:

Funny that the SCHER findings cite the EPA and the EPA sites the SCHER findings.

No, GE doesn't pay taxes - and they should have the federal government metaphorically bend them over, and ream 'em up the ass!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Why, more power to them for negotiating a deal that allows them not to pay any taxes, right!

Too many loopholes and lobbying pays off. Flat tax would solve that one.

Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2011, 12:27 pm

Nil_Nil wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Nil_Nil wrote:

GE didn't pay any taxes. :lol:

Funny that the SCHER findings cite the EPA and the EPA sites the SCHER findings.

No, GE doesn't pay taxes - and they should have the federal government metaphorically bend them over, and ream 'em up the ass!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Why, more power to them for negotiating a deal that allows them not to pay any taxes, right!

Too many loopholes and lobbying pays off. Flat tax would solve that one.

As I understand it, with a flat tax, the poor and middle class would be paying more than they are now. I just want hose corporate bastards to pay what they owe.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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