Trump orders FBI to target blacks and environmentalists
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 2:25 am
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm particularly friendly with a businessman who attends my church, and he confirms what I think about stock brokers. And morally, stockbrokers make reptiles seem appealing.
Even food workers would agree they shouldn't get the pay of highly trained tech workers, but they should get something more than starvation wages.
Even food workers would agree they shouldn't get the pay of highly trained tech workers, but they should get something more than starvation wages.
Your knowledge usually seems based on one or a few people you know at your church.
"A day in the life of a stockbroker is quite long and begins several hours before trading opens for the day. A broker gets to work early to read financial news and begin researching trades. The day typically starts at around 6:30 or 7:00 with market research and responses to client emails"
What Does a Stockbroker Do?
https://www.master-of-finance.org/faq/w ... broker-do/
s**t dude if it was just sitting around trading stocks, I would be doing it. It takes hard work and talent to be successful at it.
I wonder at times how idealistic you are as compared to being realistic.
People working manual labor break their bodies down years before retirement. I saw what it did to my dad. What Wall Street stockbroker can say that?
A great many people working stock markets, as I already stated, make reptiles look appealing. Think Kushner and Epstein - - and no, they're hardly the exception.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
25 Aug 2019, 2:27 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Take it from me...a society that strives to live by Darwinian principles of "survival of the fittest" might be espousing the perfect virtues of rugged individualism (so cherished by you and Ezra) but also seems to underpin the ethos of hunger games or virtual reality games like "Big Brother" where only the strongest get to enjoy the spoils and the rest suffer the humiliation of consolation of life as wage slaves. This is actually ethically and morally indefensible and evidently contradicts the christian ethos of the founding fathers.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
That is all a lot of palaver for do not want to make an effort but get the same benefits as those who do. I don't deserve these slave wages. I deserve to have what the person who worked at establishing a career has. Good number of people who make big bucks also work long hours. But hell no don't want to do that. Just give me the benefits because I deserve equality. I am entitled dammit.
You know my feelings don't come from conservatives. They come from being a fighter. I have almost died a couple of times, but I fought my way through it. They said I would never walk or talk or do anything except eat and crap myself. I overheard them because they thought I was too out to lunch to understand. I did not have to go through grueling physical, occupational and speech therapy. I could have stayed right were I was at. But I fought to achieve and I got results. I am not making a speech about what a hero I am. I just know from personal experience if you want something you have to work for it. You have to earn it.
Well, I'm glad you were able to fool everyone and come out on top.
Yeah I fooled everyone by striving hard and making sacrifices to achieve.
It is kind of a 'rags to riches' story.
What you seem to want is rags to riches without striving and making sacrifices.
Those who strive and make sacrifices to achieve are supposed to play fairy godmother to those don't.
The people who make your food do bust their backsides, but get little in return for it. I never said people should get riches for little effort. What I was getting at was that employers should quit paying workers for as little as possible for maximum work.
Incidentally, people on the stock exchange get rich just by moving money around, not by genuine hard work. Why don't I hear conservatives complain about that?
I think stockbrokers or whatever work pretty long hours and it is a hard job. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Here is the thing. Lets say food handlers are making $10 per hr and technicians are making $20 per hr. The food handlers wage can be increased to $20 per hr. But then the technicians are then going to want $40 per hr. And since food handlers have to be paid twice as much, the food that they prepare is going to cost twice as much. So in the end it is not going to make any difference.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... work-hours
Investment banking is not for the feint of heart.
Even companies hiring stockbrokers work their employees to death. Not a great defense in my opinion.
Perhaps you'll remember that when you claim they don't do any hard work. I won't defend a work culture in which an intern felt they had to work 72 hours straight, because I think such a work culture is idiotic. People who work that long of hours tend to not be very effective.
_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."
25 Aug 2019, 2:27 am
cyberdad wrote:
As Kraichie mentioned everyone is entitled to a minimum standard of living or quality of life. It is the socially responsible thing to do. It is irresponsible to try and pass judgement on those unable to survive without welfare. There are those who face glass ceilings and can't feel they can overcome these for whatever reason. We have a collective responsibility for these people.
Then you and your buddy would be wrong; it's certainly not an entitlement. People have the right to pursue their desired standard of living, not to have it handed to them for free (i.e. at the expense of others). And if they hit a glass ceiling they can grab a hammer and break through it the same as others have.
We only have a collective responsibility to provide for the people who honestly can't earn due to a disability, not those who can but won't. How do you think people survived before the social safety net?
My great-great grandparents arrived here legally from Germany in the late 19th century. They were traveling by train with a baby, spoke very little to no English, and ran out of money in western Pennsylvania and had to get off the train. While looking for someone who could speak German, they found an older German lady who took them in long enough for my great-great grandfather to get some some menial job and they moved into a little hovel near the railroad tracks down by the river. He applied himself, worked his ass off, and applied himself some more getting better jobs and better living arrangements as the years passed. In total they had nine (9) kids, five boys and four girls raised with his own earnings. By retirement time they had a nice big house and a maid. The house burned down in the 70's, years after they passed, but I've seen the old pictures and by those I could tell they did well for themselves but it took time, hard work, and sacrifices. In all of their descendants, including me, not even the card carrying democrats have been slackers. When times were hard locally they pulled up thier stakes and moved elsewhere where there was work. That's how so many of them ended up in California and Florida or in the military back in the day.
Yes, the old German lady took them in but there are still plenty of people that will help the poor that appear to have some drive and worthiness to them. This isnt the "hellworld" some make it out to be, but be cautioned that those same helpful people can sniff out a slacker when they meet one and will wisely close the door on them.
This is just a synopsis of a genealogy report one of my relatives did several years ago that is posted on the family page on Facebook, along with the aforementioned pictures. I have other ancestors that came in though Massachusetts and started out as immigrant house servants on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket. I do not know thier story as well, but in the long run just about all of their descendants that I know of ended up successful with some being close to wealthy.
Sadly we're on a slippery slope from being the land of opportunity to being the land of entitlements and participation medals.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 2:45 am
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Take it from me...a society that strives to live by Darwinian principles of "survival of the fittest" might be espousing the perfect virtues of rugged individualism (so cherished by you and Ezra) but also seems to underpin the ethos of hunger games or virtual reality games like "Big Brother" where only the strongest get to enjoy the spoils and the rest suffer the humiliation of consolation of life as wage slaves. This is actually ethically and morally indefensible and evidently contradicts the christian ethos of the founding fathers.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
That is all a lot of palaver for do not want to make an effort but get the same benefits as those who do. I don't deserve these slave wages. I deserve to have what the person who worked at establishing a career has. Good number of people who make big bucks also work long hours. But hell no don't want to do that. Just give me the benefits because I deserve equality. I am entitled dammit.
You know my feelings don't come from conservatives. They come from being a fighter. I have almost died a couple of times, but I fought my way through it. They said I would never walk or talk or do anything except eat and crap myself. I overheard them because they thought I was too out to lunch to understand. I did not have to go through grueling physical, occupational and speech therapy. I could have stayed right were I was at. But I fought to achieve and I got results. I am not making a speech about what a hero I am. I just know from personal experience if you want something you have to work for it. You have to earn it.
Well, I'm glad you were able to fool everyone and come out on top.
Yeah I fooled everyone by striving hard and making sacrifices to achieve.
It is kind of a 'rags to riches' story.
What you seem to want is rags to riches without striving and making sacrifices.
Those who strive and make sacrifices to achieve are supposed to play fairy godmother to those don't.
The people who make your food do bust their backsides, but get little in return for it. I never said people should get riches for little effort. What I was getting at was that employers should quit paying workers for as little as possible for maximum work.
Incidentally, people on the stock exchange get rich just by moving money around, not by genuine hard work. Why don't I hear conservatives complain about that?
I think stockbrokers or whatever work pretty long hours and it is a hard job. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Here is the thing. Lets say food handlers are making $10 per hr and technicians are making $20 per hr. The food handlers wage can be increased to $20 per hr. But then the technicians are then going to want $40 per hr. And since food handlers have to be paid twice as much, the food that they prepare is going to cost twice as much. So in the end it is not going to make any difference.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... work-hours
Investment banking is not for the feint of heart.
Even companies hiring stockbrokers work their employees to death. Not a great defense in my opinion.
Perhaps you'll remember that when you claim they don't do any hard work. I won't defend a work culture in which an intern felt they had to work 72 hours straight, because I think such a work culture is idiotic. People who work that long of hours tend to not be very effective.
But are you going to defend workers doing manual labor that results in long term injury and pain? Stockbrokers are going to retire with their health intact.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
25 Aug 2019, 2:49 am
Basic Economics Ch 13 wrote:
A tourist in New York's Greenwich Village decided to have his portrait sketched by a sidewalk artist. He received a very fine sketch for which he was charged $100.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 2:53 am
Antrax wrote:
Basic Economics Ch 13 wrote:
A tourist in New York's Greenwich Village decided to have his portrait sketched by a sidewalk artist. He received a very fine sketch for which he was charged $100.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
I again sincerely wish there was an emoji for clapping hands.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
25 Aug 2019, 2:56 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Take it from me...a society that strives to live by Darwinian principles of "survival of the fittest" might be espousing the perfect virtues of rugged individualism (so cherished by you and Ezra) but also seems to underpin the ethos of hunger games or virtual reality games like "Big Brother" where only the strongest get to enjoy the spoils and the rest suffer the humiliation of consolation of life as wage slaves. This is actually ethically and morally indefensible and evidently contradicts the christian ethos of the founding fathers.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
That is all a lot of palaver for do not want to make an effort but get the same benefits as those who do. I don't deserve these slave wages. I deserve to have what the person who worked at establishing a career has. Good number of people who make big bucks also work long hours. But hell no don't want to do that. Just give me the benefits because I deserve equality. I am entitled dammit.
You know my feelings don't come from conservatives. They come from being a fighter. I have almost died a couple of times, but I fought my way through it. They said I would never walk or talk or do anything except eat and crap myself. I overheard them because they thought I was too out to lunch to understand. I did not have to go through grueling physical, occupational and speech therapy. I could have stayed right were I was at. But I fought to achieve and I got results. I am not making a speech about what a hero I am. I just know from personal experience if you want something you have to work for it. You have to earn it.
Well, I'm glad you were able to fool everyone and come out on top.
Yeah I fooled everyone by striving hard and making sacrifices to achieve.
It is kind of a 'rags to riches' story.
What you seem to want is rags to riches without striving and making sacrifices.
Those who strive and make sacrifices to achieve are supposed to play fairy godmother to those don't.
The people who make your food do bust their backsides, but get little in return for it. I never said people should get riches for little effort. What I was getting at was that employers should quit paying workers for as little as possible for maximum work.
Incidentally, people on the stock exchange get rich just by moving money around, not by genuine hard work. Why don't I hear conservatives complain about that?
I think stockbrokers or whatever work pretty long hours and it is a hard job. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Here is the thing. Lets say food handlers are making $10 per hr and technicians are making $20 per hr. The food handlers wage can be increased to $20 per hr. But then the technicians are then going to want $40 per hr. And since food handlers have to be paid twice as much, the food that they prepare is going to cost twice as much. So in the end it is not going to make any difference.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... work-hours
Investment banking is not for the feint of heart.
Even companies hiring stockbrokers work their employees to death. Not a great defense in my opinion.
Perhaps you'll remember that when you claim they don't do any hard work. I won't defend a work culture in which an intern felt they had to work 72 hours straight, because I think such a work culture is idiotic. People who work that long of hours tend to not be very effective.
But are you going to defend workers doing manual labor that results in long term injury and pain? Stockbrokers are going to retire with their health intact.
Tradeoffs to everything. Stockbrokers have a much higher risk of heart attack. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/02/busi ... tacks.html
_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,264
Location: the island of defective toy santas
25 Aug 2019, 2:58 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Basic Economics Ch 13 wrote:
A tourist in New York's Greenwich Village decided to have his portrait sketched by a sidewalk artist. He received a very fine sketch for which he was charged $100.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
I again sincerely wish there was an emoji for clapping hands.
Not sure what you mean by this. Given your history of devaluing any skillset beyond manual labor, I'd expect you to take offense at the quote. However, clapping hands typically indicates approval.
_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 3:01 am
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Take it from me...a society that strives to live by Darwinian principles of "survival of the fittest" might be espousing the perfect virtues of rugged individualism (so cherished by you and Ezra) but also seems to underpin the ethos of hunger games or virtual reality games like "Big Brother" where only the strongest get to enjoy the spoils and the rest suffer the humiliation of consolation of life as wage slaves. This is actually ethically and morally indefensible and evidently contradicts the christian ethos of the founding fathers.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".
The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."
I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/
So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.
This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.
That is all a lot of palaver for do not want to make an effort but get the same benefits as those who do. I don't deserve these slave wages. I deserve to have what the person who worked at establishing a career has. Good number of people who make big bucks also work long hours. But hell no don't want to do that. Just give me the benefits because I deserve equality. I am entitled dammit.
You know my feelings don't come from conservatives. They come from being a fighter. I have almost died a couple of times, but I fought my way through it. They said I would never walk or talk or do anything except eat and crap myself. I overheard them because they thought I was too out to lunch to understand. I did not have to go through grueling physical, occupational and speech therapy. I could have stayed right were I was at. But I fought to achieve and I got results. I am not making a speech about what a hero I am. I just know from personal experience if you want something you have to work for it. You have to earn it.
Well, I'm glad you were able to fool everyone and come out on top.
Yeah I fooled everyone by striving hard and making sacrifices to achieve.
It is kind of a 'rags to riches' story.
What you seem to want is rags to riches without striving and making sacrifices.
Those who strive and make sacrifices to achieve are supposed to play fairy godmother to those don't.
The people who make your food do bust their backsides, but get little in return for it. I never said people should get riches for little effort. What I was getting at was that employers should quit paying workers for as little as possible for maximum work.
Incidentally, people on the stock exchange get rich just by moving money around, not by genuine hard work. Why don't I hear conservatives complain about that?
I think stockbrokers or whatever work pretty long hours and it is a hard job. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Here is the thing. Lets say food handlers are making $10 per hr and technicians are making $20 per hr. The food handlers wage can be increased to $20 per hr. But then the technicians are then going to want $40 per hr. And since food handlers have to be paid twice as much, the food that they prepare is going to cost twice as much. So in the end it is not going to make any difference.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... work-hours
Investment banking is not for the feint of heart.
Even companies hiring stockbrokers work their employees to death. Not a great defense in my opinion.
Perhaps you'll remember that when you claim they don't do any hard work. I won't defend a work culture in which an intern felt they had to work 72 hours straight, because I think such a work culture is idiotic. People who work that long of hours tend to not be very effective.
But are you going to defend workers doing manual labor that results in long term injury and pain? Stockbrokers are going to retire with their health intact.
Tradeoffs to everything. Stockbrokers have a much higher risk of heart attack. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/02/busi ... tacks.html
Provided that they don't drop dead from letting the stress get to them, I assume they'll live to enjoy am active retirement. Plenty of laborers also get worked to heart disease, risk physical harm and even death operating machinery, and generally develop bad knees, bad backs, hearing loss, and in certain jobs lung damage.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer
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Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 3:04 am
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Basic Economics Ch 13 wrote:
A tourist in New York's Greenwich Village decided to have his portrait sketched by a sidewalk artist. He received a very fine sketch for which he was charged $100.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
"That's expensive," he said to the artist, "but I'll pay it, because it's a great sketch. But, really it took you only five minutes."
"Twenty years and five minutes," the artist replied.
I again sincerely wish there was an emoji for clapping hands.
Not sure what you mean by this. Given your history of devaluing any skillset beyond manual labor, I'd expect you to take offense at the quote. However, clapping hands typically indicates approval.
Not at all. As a published writer I have the utmost admiration for anyone else in the arts.
As a matter of fact, artists and workers have traditionally been allies in left wing politics.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
25 Aug 2019, 4:26 am
Raptor wrote:
And if they hit a glass ceiling they can grab a hammer and break through it the same as others have.
My great-great grandparents arrived here legally from Germany in the late 19th century. They were traveling by train with a baby, spoke very little to no English, and ran out of money in western Pennsylvania and had to get off the train. While looking for someone who could speak German, they found an older German lady who took them in long enough for my great-great grandfather to get some some menial job and they moved into a little hovel near the railroad tracks down by the river. He applied himself, worked his ass off, and applied himself some more getting better jobs and better living arrangements as the years passed. In total they had nine (9) kids, five boys and four girls raised with his own earnings.
My great-great grandparents arrived here legally from Germany in the late 19th century. They were traveling by train with a baby, spoke very little to no English, and ran out of money in western Pennsylvania and had to get off the train. While looking for someone who could speak German, they found an older German lady who took them in long enough for my great-great grandfather to get some some menial job and they moved into a little hovel near the railroad tracks down by the river. He applied himself, worked his ass off, and applied himself some more getting better jobs and better living arrangements as the years passed. In total they had nine (9) kids, five boys and four girls raised with his own earnings.
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).
25 Aug 2019, 5:57 am
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
And if they hit a glass ceiling they can grab a hammer and break through it the same as others have.
My great-great grandparents arrived here legally from Germany in the late 19th century. They were traveling by train with a baby, spoke very little to no English, and ran out of money in western Pennsylvania and had to get off the train. While looking for someone who could speak German, they found an older German lady who took them in long enough for my great-great grandfather to get some some menial job and they moved into a little hovel near the railroad tracks down by the river. He applied himself, worked his ass off, and applied himself some more getting better jobs and better living arrangements as the years passed. In total they had nine (9) kids, five boys and four girls raised with his own earnings.
My great-great grandparents arrived here legally from Germany in the late 19th century. They were traveling by train with a baby, spoke very little to no English, and ran out of money in western Pennsylvania and had to get off the train. While looking for someone who could speak German, they found an older German lady who took them in long enough for my great-great grandfather to get some some menial job and they moved into a little hovel near the railroad tracks down by the river. He applied himself, worked his ass off, and applied himself some more getting better jobs and better living arrangements as the years passed. In total they had nine (9) kids, five boys and four girls raised with his own earnings.
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).
The story you quoted sounds very similar to one side of my families story. My grandfather's mother was a washwoman, her husband keeled over when my grandfather was 5. She raised 3 boys, alone. Two engineers and a veterinarian.
I am still astonished that you think you can tell other people what to do with the money they've earned. It's not your place to tell other people what to do, or to tell them what's civilized. I think violence is uncivilized, but Antifa is steadily bashing people over the head who disagree with them, to fight "fascism." It's disgusting and very poor form. How about you do you, Cyberdad? You don't do me, or the wealthy. You do you, I'll do me and the wealthy can do themselves.
_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.
Neurocognitive exam in May 2019, diagnosed with ASD, Asperger's type in June 2019.
25 Aug 2019, 6:52 am
Persephone29 wrote:
I think violence is uncivilized, but Antifa is steadily bashing people over the head who disagree with them, to fight "fascism." It's disgusting and very poor form. How about you do you, Cyberdad? You don't do me, or the wealthy. You do you, I'll do me and the wealthy can do themselves.
It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.
25 Aug 2019, 7:01 am
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I think violence is uncivilized, but Antifa is steadily bashing people over the head who disagree with them, to fight "fascism." It's disgusting and very poor form. How about you do you, Cyberdad? You don't do me, or the wealthy. You do you, I'll do me and the wealthy can do themselves.
It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.
Practice what you preach, then. Stop telling everyone what the wealthy should be doing with their money. I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.
_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.
Neurocognitive exam in May 2019, diagnosed with ASD, Asperger's type in June 2019.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Aug 2019, 1:33 pm
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I think violence is uncivilized, but Antifa is steadily bashing people over the head who disagree with them, to fight "fascism." It's disgusting and very poor form. How about you do you, Cyberdad? You don't do me, or the wealthy. You do you, I'll do me and the wealthy can do themselves.
It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.
Practice what you preach, then. Stop telling everyone what the wealthy should be doing with their money. I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.
I'm staying away from white nationalists because I want to stay alive.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
