Obama Orders Review of Cyber Attacks

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kraftiekortie
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22 Dec 2016, 4:55 pm

I care about renewable energy.

I'm not sure coal miners out of jobs care so much about it.

The coal miners should be put to work implementing this "renewable energy," somehow.

That seems fair to me.



Feyokien
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22 Dec 2016, 5:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I care about renewable energy.

I'm not sure coal miners out of jobs care so much about it.

The coal miners should be put to work implementing this "renewable energy," somehow.

That seems fair to me.


Coal "miners", machine operators basically, out of work should probably just find other jobs in the mining industry. Sand & Gravel, limestone, etc, all very steady and reliable areas to work in. We will never not need it and running out is a pipe dream. I dunno why people keep acting like these people will never find jobs, the very nature of their work is to move around a lot.



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22 Dec 2016, 6:28 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In order to sway an American election for highest office. Sounds pretty significant to me.


You don't think it goes on all the time? If foreign governments released statements during the election claiming that Trump was unfit to lead, would you be complaining about them attempting to sway the election?


I'm laughing at the idea that the United States has never tried to influence an election. Namely through the CIA. Also the funny thing is Clinton categorically blamed our own FBI for influencing the voters against her and stalling out her campaign's momentum. Now all of sudden it's the Russians? Well not all of a sudden, since they knew about the phishing scam a long time ago, just all of a sudden headline news right before December 19th. I mean it was the literal headline of the Seattle Times Saturday Dec 17th. And it's as if the FBI is going along with it like "uh yeah, the Russians!" (get the blame spotlight off us). The Commies are out to get us and Trump's one of them! Where's Senator Joseph McCarthy when we need him?


I think it's despicable how the CIA had interfered with other nation's elections.
And yes, it was the Russians. Whether Clinton could have won otherwise, who knows. But the fact that Putin had deliberately interfered should make all Americans see red - and I don't mean commie red. If it had been reversed, and Clinton had gotten covert help from Russia, would you be so dismissive of it?


So far all "Russians" indicates is that the extremely unsophisticated phishing scam came out of Russia. I still haven't seen any proof that Putin was involved. Did Obama's probe into finding out who did what conclude already? From what I've seen all news articles dealing with it only have dates up to around December 19th. I haven't seen any updates.

Yes, I would have the same opinion of it if it was Clinton. And I'm not dismissive of it's undetermined effect just yet. But I am dismissive of the way the situation has been presented so far, in implicating Putin. This doesn't have anything to do with my feelings about Trump or Clinton or Putin, but only with what established facts exist and the lack of established facts.

I'm also taking into consideration the fact that Clinton herself already categorically directly blamed the FBI, namely James Comey, for causing her loss of the election. In other words if that's true, then the wikileaks through a phishing scam would seem close to irrelevant.

I also believe the phishing scam incident became widely known through NBC to generate headlines like "Obama: Putin behind hacking" (Seattle Times Sat Nov 17th) on the weekend before the electoral vote to try manipulating the electors. Namely because of the timing and the lack of updates since then.


Putin was ex-KGB, and so that sort of thing is his business. That, and as Russian strongman, he runs a top heavy operation where he makes the final decisions.


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JohnPowell
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22 Dec 2016, 8:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Earthbound wrote:
This is serious business, even though many people just claim its "democrats being sore losers". Its pretty unfortunate how republicans and others have just bashed democrats at any turn for recounts, the hacking and so on. However- just look at all the garbage Trump spewed- "its rigged", "Russia please hack us" and many more comments. He gets away with this stuff because the media switches to the newest story pretty quickly. Plus the whole "I was kidding" and "I didn't say that" excuses work nearly everytime for Trump. Reporters need to stand up and say to Trump- you are lying! Then show him the proof right then and there. The fact that Trump uses Twitter to cyberbully anyone that disagrees with him is unprofessional and just immature. He is a conman that cheated his way to victory.

I'm strongly thinking Trump will be impeached 4-6 months into his first year, if he even gets into office at all! People can whine all they want that he won "fair and square" but there is more than enough evidence that he had Russia's help.


Actually, there isn't any evidence. We just have some unknown people in the CIA saying it's true and some corrupted paper spewing it out. People swallowing this show they haven't learned a thing from the outrageous lies coming from the 'experts' from both Gulf wars, well from all wars actually. When there was actual clear evidence being leaked that Clinton was being bought by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the corrupted media completely ignored it, as did those who just want to believe what they are told.


So let me get this straight, you criticize the media ignoring evidence leaked about clinton, yet you'd prefer they stay quiet about any findings related to corruption in the republican party? I don't fully understand this logic.


No, I want everything out in the open, if that was the case none of these chicken hawks would be running. The double standard is to completely ignore the much worse crimes of Clinton and make some up about Russia and Trump.


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22 Dec 2016, 8:26 pm

Earthbound wrote:
Russia is now allying with the Freedom Party (founded by ex-nazis, and honestly the whole group looks very racist in my view at least). Sickening!

Then there's the GOP and Trump backed "First Amendment Defense Act" that might get passed. It's just a way for people to discriminate! Very sickening!

Also according to Newt Gingrich: Trump doesn't want to 'drain the swamp' anymore. So yet another Trump lie exposed. But its no secret- look at who Trump has picked for his cabinet! Rich elite people/ex-lobbyists and other scum that wont help many in America except for the super rich and their families/friends.

Russia did a hack and shouldn't be an ally to USA period. There is NO good proof that Putin wants to act nicely unless it means more money for him and his friends (Trump, etc).

It's very unfortunate and frustrating that people were tricked and conned by Trump with his fake promises and all of his lies. I'm really hoping an impeachment comes. So many people will be suffering if Trump is in office for even a few months I bet! :x


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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23 Dec 2016, 12:15 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Earthbound wrote:
Russia is now allying with the Freedom Party (founded by ex-nazis, and honestly the whole group looks very racist in my view at least). Sickening!

Then there's the GOP and Trump backed "First Amendment Defense Act" that might get passed. It's just a way for people to discriminate! Very sickening!

Also according to Newt Gingrich: Trump doesn't want to 'drain the swamp' anymore. So yet another Trump lie exposed. But its no secret- look at who Trump has picked for his cabinet! Rich elite people/ex-lobbyists and other scum that wont help many in America except for the super rich and their families/friends.

Russia did a hack and shouldn't be an ally to USA period. There is NO good proof that Putin wants to act nicely unless it means more money for him and his friends (Trump, etc).

It's very unfortunate and frustrating that people were tricked and conned by Trump with his fake promises and all of his lies. I'm really hoping an impeachment comes. So many people will be suffering if Trump is in office for even a few months I bet! :x


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


How is that funny? Putin's ally Trump is apparently looking to friendly relations with the so called Freedom Party, so why shouldn't Putin?


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EzraS
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23 Dec 2016, 12:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Putin was ex-KGB, and so that sort of thing is his business. That, and as Russian strongman, he runs a top heavy operation where he makes the final decisions.


Federal Security was an arm of the KGB, not the KGB itself. He was also pro-Perestroika. But here's the thing, would a former KGB agent strongman use a traceable email fishing scam to perform a "cyber attack"? Like I said, if operating like a tiny third world theft operation is the best Putin can do, then there's nothing to fear from him. On a level of 1 to 10 on the espionage scale, that phishing scam was a 1 at best.

And again, where's the proof that he was involved? Aren't you the least bit bothered that Obama directly accuses Putin of being involved when there's no proof of that?



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23 Dec 2016, 12:58 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
There's a huge difference between making an upfront policy statement, and covertly f*cking with another nation.


Assuming this was even them, all they did was make some unflattering emails public, hardly KGB stuff.


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EzraS
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23 Dec 2016, 1:01 am

Earthbound wrote:
It's very unfortunate and frustrating that people were tricked and conned by Trump with his fake promises and all of his lies. I'm really hoping an impeachment comes. So many people will be suffering if Trump is in office for even a few months


It might help if liberals listened to Henry Kissinger's assessment of that. Personally I'm waiting for someone like Kissinger to make all theses dire predictions about Trump, before I take them seriously. Until then that, along with rioting and death threats, just sounds like kooks.



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23 Dec 2016, 1:06 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There's a huge difference between making an upfront policy statement, and covertly f*cking with another nation.


Assuming this was even them, all they did was make some unflattering emails public, hardly KGB stuff.


Using the world's most basic phishing scam, in the most unsophisticated way imaginable, to get some moron to reveal his password was "P@ssword". Absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention hilarious. All this desperate straw grasping.

Why am I supposed to take this seriously again?



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23 Dec 2016, 1:48 am

EzraS wrote:
Why am I supposed to take this seriously again?


Because Democrats can't lose elections of course, they have to be stolen from them.


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EzraS
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23 Dec 2016, 3:00 am

Dox47 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Why am I supposed to take this seriously again?


Because Democrats can't lose elections of course, they have to be stolen from them.


"What we haven't seen before, I think is somebody questioning the integrity of elections and the will of the people," - Obama



cyberdad
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23 Dec 2016, 4:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
How is that funny? Putin's ally Trump is apparently looking to friendly relations with the so called Freedom Party, so why shouldn't Putin?


Yes the writing is certainly on the wall
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/donald- ... -by-nazis/

Remind me but didn't the US side with the allies to fight an Austrian Nazi?



EzraS
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23 Dec 2016, 9:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
How is that funny? Putin's ally Trump is apparently looking to friendly relations with the so called Freedom Party, so why shouldn't Putin?


Yes the writing is certainly on the wall
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/donald- ... -by-nazis/

Remind me but didn't the US side with the allies to fight an Austrian Nazi?


Image



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23 Dec 2016, 2:41 pm

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
How is that funny? Putin's ally Trump is apparently looking to friendly relations with the so called Freedom Party, so why shouldn't Putin?


Yes the writing is certainly on the wall
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/donald- ... -by-nazis/

Remind me but didn't the US side with the allies to fight an Austrian Nazi?


Image


Sure, call Trump a Nazi: Godwin

Quote:
The inventor of "Godwin's Law" about Hitler comparisons on the Internet says they're not always inappropriate.

"To be clear: I don’t personally believe all rational discourse has ended when Nazis or the Holocaust are invoked. But I’m pleased that people still use Godwin’s Law to force one another to argue more thoughtfully. The best way to prevent future holocausts, I believe, is not to forbear from Holocaust comparisons; instead, it’s to make sure that those comparisons are meaningful and substantive. This is something a pleasantly surprising percentage of commentators in this political season have managed to do (like this piece on Trump by New America and CNN analyst Peter Bergen). And I’m pleased in any season to see more people revisiting the history books.

It’s still true, of course, that the worst thing you can say about your opponents, in our culture, is that they’re like Hitler or the Nazis. But I’m hopeful that we can prod our glib online rhetorical culture into a more thoughtful, historically reflective space. In 2015, the Internet gives more and more individuals both the information and the skepticism to question what politicians and others say in their Hitler-centered hyperboles. Just as importantly, the Internet gives us the tools to share our criticisms — including the appropriately appalled reaction to Trump’s statements — with one another more widely.

The one thing we shouldn’t be skeptical of is our right — our obligation, even — as ordinary individuals to use the Internet and the other tools of the digital age to challenge our would-be leaders and check the facts.

And by all means be skeptical of Godwin’s Law, too. But you don’t need me to tell you that."


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EzraS
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23 Dec 2016, 3:31 pm

wilburforce wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
How is that funny? Putin's ally Trump is apparently looking to friendly relations with the so called Freedom Party, so why shouldn't Putin?


Yes the writing is certainly on the wall
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/donald- ... -by-nazis/

Remind me but didn't the US side with the allies to fight an Austrian Nazi?


Image


Sure, call Trump a Nazi: Godwin

Quote:
The inventor of "Godwin's Law" about Hitler comparisons on the Internet says they're not always inappropriate.

"To be clear: I don’t personally believe all rational discourse has ended when Nazis or the Holocaust are invoked. But I’m pleased that people still use Godwin’s Law to force one another to argue more thoughtfully. The best way to prevent future holocausts, I believe, is not to forbear from Holocaust comparisons; instead, it’s to make sure that those comparisons are meaningful and substantive. This is something a pleasantly surprising percentage of commentators in this political season have managed to do (like this piece on Trump by New America and CNN analyst Peter Bergen). And I’m pleased in any season to see more people revisiting the history books.

It’s still true, of course, that the worst thing you can say about your opponents, in our culture, is that they’re like Hitler or the Nazis. But I’m hopeful that we can prod our glib online rhetorical culture into a more thoughtful, historically reflective space. In 2015, the Internet gives more and more individuals both the information and the skepticism to question what politicians and others say in their Hitler-centered hyperboles. Just as importantly, the Internet gives us the tools to share our criticisms — including the appropriately appalled reaction to Trump’s statements — with one another more widely.

The one thing we shouldn’t be skeptical of is our right — our obligation, even — as ordinary individuals to use the Internet and the other tools of the digital age to challenge our would-be leaders and check the facts.

And by all means be skeptical of Godwin’s Law, too. But you don’t need me to tell you that."


You sank my battleship :P

Then again you can apply Ezra's law: Virtually every post WWII president and presidential candidate has been compared to Hitler and or called a Nazi numerous times. Just look up any of their names followed by the accusation.