Trump orders FBI to target blacks and environmentalists

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Persephone29
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25 Aug 2019, 4:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

I think violence is uncivilized, but Antifa is steadily bashing people over the head who disagree with them, to fight "fascism." It's disgusting and very poor form. How about you do you, Cyberdad? You don't do me, or the wealthy. You do you, I'll do me and the wealthy can do themselves.

It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.

Practice what you preach, then. Stop telling everyone what the wealthy should be doing with their money. I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.

I'm staying away from white nationalists because I want to stay alive.

I don't know any white nationalists. When you catch a glimpse of one, take a picture. I need to know what they look like. I know you ain't talking about me, because it's little Puerto Rico here everyday. I'm learning how best to cook plantains, but I'm no good so far. We ate them anyway though, food's expensive.

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Kraichgauer
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25 Aug 2019, 8:21 pm

Persephone29 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.

Practice what you preach, then. Stop telling everyone what the wealthy should be doing with their money. I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.

I'm staying away from white nationalists because I want to stay alive.

If you watch Fox, then you've definitely seen one named Tucker Carlson. Steve Miller in the White House, despite being Jewish, is another. Guys who shoot up synagogues, Mosques, and malls patronized by minorities who are on the news seemingly every week are others. I think it's safe to say they're everywhere, even if most Americans consider them to be a waste of working human organs.

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auntblabby
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25 Aug 2019, 8:32 pm

i see 'em in my neck o' the woods.

Kraichgauer
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25 Aug 2019, 8:42 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i see 'em in my neck o' the woods.

My state representative, Matt Shea, has chosen to show his true colors, and they're that of a white sheet and hood. The Washington state assembly is undergoing talks to remove him after already stripping him of any committee positions.

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auntblabby
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25 Aug 2019, 8:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i see 'em in my neck o' the woods.

IMHO that guy is a stone-cold psycho. look at that man's dead fish eyes.

Persephone29
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25 Aug 2019, 9:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

It's a free world and people are entitled to think for themselves.

Practice what you preach, then. Stop telling everyone what the wealthy should be doing with their money. I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.

I'm staying away from white nationalists because I want to stay alive.

Don't watch Fox news... but, I understand what you mean now.

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Raptor
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25 Aug 2019, 9:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:

As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

Persephone29 wrote:

I am still astonished that you think you can tell other people what to do with the money they've earned. It's not your place to tell other people what to do, or to tell them what's civilized.

With cyberdad it’s best just to learn to enjoy his….um...uniqueness and spar back and forth with no expectation of actually accomplishing anything. I can’t say anything more without violating the TOS.

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Last edited by Raptor on 25 Aug 2019, 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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25 Aug 2019, 10:25 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i see 'em in my neck o' the woods.

IMHO that guy is a stone-cold psycho. look at that man's dead fish eyes.

Not only is he a psycho, but he's also a fanatic.

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EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 12:47 am

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

Brictoria
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26 Aug 2019, 12:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

If you're against income inequality, then embrace capitalism.
In theory. In theory, communism was supposed to work, too.

Any government (human greed of people in the government) will put themselves before others.

Thus, it won't work.

Only profit-seeking capitalists have the vision and motivation to seek out more efficient opportunities.

Not everyone is a profit seeking capitalist. In fact most people just want to have enough to support a family and have a little enjoyment in life. Why should they be denied that for the greed of the employer class?

Capitalists fight income inequality. Do you support that or not? You sound like a nationalist?

profits should come before people , otherwise greedy people will undermine efficiency

In the big picture, if you want to help the most people, you want the best efficiency. That leaves more resources for others.

Your argument , what about a mega-rich American being left behind, indicates you don't really want to help people. You're nationalistic and self-centered ?

I'm not a nationalist. But I was born in the American working class, and I can tell you right now that the life my dad was able to provide for my mom and me is no longer available to most American workers. That changed when labor laws were revoked, unions broken, benefits stripped away, wages allowed to stagnate, and jobs sent overseas. Companies expect workers to be loyal to them, but that loyalty is hardly ever returned. Big business can and should help others, but they don't due to corporate greed, and caring about the welfare of the shareholders over that of their own employees. When America was number one, workers got a huge share of the spoils. That ended with business being allowed to get away with murder.

Based on your age, I'd also suggest another reason for the decline in income may have something to do with changes to the workforce that occurred since that time.

When he would have been working, females in the workforce would have been less common. Once more females entered he workforce, employers would have realised that they did not need to increase wages as much, as they had a large pool of people available to chose from who would be happy with the current level of pay.

Similarly, while there is a large pool of people available for jobs at "minimum wage", then there will be no incentive to increase this. Should the available pool be decreased (either through removal of "illegal immigrants", or through self-education), then employers will need to voluntarily increase the amount paid in order to attract employees.

The best way to ensure higher wages is to lower the ratio of potential employees to number of positions available, which is a major reason why jobs which require certain skills pay more than "minimum wage" jobs which anyone can do.

From outside the USA, it seems like this is what is being encouraged at the moment with the push to bring jobs back to the USA, along with trying to remove "illegal immigrants" would help a lot in moving the ratio back towards favoring the worker (and therefore increasing wages).

EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 1:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Antrax wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Antrax wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Take it from me...a society that strives to live by Darwinian principles of "survival of the fittest" might be espousing the perfect virtues of rugged individualism (so cherished by you and Ezra) but also seems to underpin the ethos of hunger games or virtual reality games like "Big Brother" where only the strongest get to enjoy the spoils and the rest suffer the humiliation of consolation of life as wage slaves. This is actually ethically and morally indefensible and evidently contradicts the christian ethos of the founding fathers.

Am interesting side story was at the time of signing the declaration of independence, an inalienable declaration was made in the American constitution that;
"All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness".

The founding fathers were made aware this declaration was incompatible with slavery but Before final approval, Congress, having made a few alterations to some of the wording, also deleted nearly a fourth of the draft, including a passage criticizing the slave trade. At that time many members of Congress, including Jefferson, owned slaves, which clearly factored into their decision to delete the controversial "anti-slavery" passage. Jefferson believed adding such a passage would dissolve the independence movement. Jefferson, decades before the Declaration of Independence, argued in court for the abolition of a slave. The court dismissed the case outright. In writing the declaration, Jefferson believed the phrase "all men are created equal" to be self-evident, and would ultimately resolve slavery. In 1776, abolitionist Thomas Day wrote: "If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves."

I pick on Jefferson who was a paedophile and a liar but Washington was also a crook. In order to get around the rule that slaves must be offered their freedom after 6 months of service in the state of Virginia he moved the slaves across state lines and reregistered them as slaves before bringing them back to Virginia,
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954283/

So it's a fact that both Jefferson and Washington the founding fathers of the US were also criminals in their own country.

This therefore taints the constitution. We have similar problems in Australia where both the architect of our constitution and our first prime minster were also dishonest men.

That is all a lot of palaver for do not want to make an effort but get the same benefits as those who do. I don't deserve these slave wages. I deserve to have what the person who worked at establishing a career has. Good number of people who make big bucks also work long hours. But hell no don't want to do that. Just give me the benefits because I deserve equality. I am entitled dammit.

You know my feelings don't come from conservatives. They come from being a fighter. I have almost died a couple of times, but I fought my way through it. They said I would never walk or talk or do anything except eat and crap myself. I overheard them because they thought I was too out to lunch to understand. I did not have to go through grueling physical, occupational and speech therapy. I could have stayed right were I was at. But I fought to achieve and I got results. I am not making a speech about what a hero I am. I just know from personal experience if you want something you have to work for it. You have to earn it.

Well, I'm glad you were able to fool everyone and come out on top.

Yeah I fooled everyone by striving hard and making sacrifices to achieve.
It is kind of a 'rags to riches' story.
What you seem to want is rags to riches without striving and making sacrifices.
Those who strive and make sacrifices to achieve are supposed to play fairy godmother to those don't.

The people who make your food do bust their backsides, but get little in return for it. I never said people should get riches for little effort. What I was getting at was that employers should quit paying workers for as little as possible for maximum work.
Incidentally, people on the stock exchange get rich just by moving money around, not by genuine hard work. Why don't I hear conservatives complain about that?

I think stockbrokers or whatever work pretty long hours and it is a hard job. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Here is the thing. Lets say food handlers are making $10 per hr and technicians are making $20 per hr. The food handlers wage can be increased to $20 per hr. But then the technicians are then going to want $40 per hr. And since food handlers have to be paid twice as much, the food that they prepare is going to cost twice as much. So in the end it is not going to make any difference.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... work-hours

Investment banking is not for the feint of heart.

Even companies hiring stockbrokers work their employees to death. Not a great defense in my opinion.

Perhaps you'll remember that when you claim they don't do any hard work. I won't defend a work culture in which an intern felt they had to work 72 hours straight, because I think such a work culture is idiotic. People who work that long of hours tend to not be very effective.

But are you going to defend workers doing manual labor that results in long term injury and pain? Stockbrokers are going to retire with their health intact.

Not necessarily. Those involved in high stress work develop all sorts of health problems over time.

Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 1:19 am

EzraS wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

No, that's just a Republican talking point. The people we call Nazis are genuine racist white nationalists. The question is, are you going to continue to deny there's a racism problem, or will you concede most liberals don't count most Republicans as bigots, and would like to see said Republicans take a stand against racists along with liberals?

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LoveNotHate
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26 Aug 2019, 1:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

White nationalists are poor far lefties that support Socialist programs.

That's why nationalist groups have names like "Worker's Party" or "Democratic Party" or "Socialist Party".

List of white nationalist organizations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... anizations

They support Socialist job (worker) protections, anti-business (pro-worker), anti-free trade, anti-free markets.

They're the opposite of conservatives.

Liberals should denounce Socialism as racist, because it's inherently nationalistic (native worker protections).

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EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 2:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

No, that is my personal observation based on listening to democrats.

Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 3:21 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

Even if that's the case in Europe and other places, such groups still embrace nativism and racism which is hardly conducive to the liberal movement.
I seriously doubt anyone could make a sound argument for the American white nationalist movement being to the left. Again, there's the nativist anti-immigration bigotry which is extends to not just illegal immigrants, but any legal immigrant who isn't white. Racism is a no brainer when it comes to white nationalists, and that is in complete opposition to civil rights championed by the left, as well as homophobia and bigotry targeting any religion not evangelical Christianity.
Just what the hell is possibly wrong with worker protection? Are you aware of the lives that have been saved by such legislation? Just look at atrocities like the Triangle Shirt Waist fire where over a hundred women were burned to death at the beginning of the 20th century, all because worker safety and fire protection had been left up to employers... who instead chose to make thing worse for their employees to save a little money! Today, it's the racist right that wants to undo all worker and consumer protection, calling it Jew socialism.
Seriously, socialism racist?
What's possibly wrong with being pro-worker? My parents were working people. I've held down plenty of blue collar jobs. You're taking the side against the majority of Americans.
Everything from the Alt Right, to the Klan, to the American Nazi Party are to the far, far right.

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Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 3:24 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Persephone29 wrote:

Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.

No, that is my personal observation based on listening to democrats.

Well then, I'll step up and say that they're wrong.

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