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EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 3:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I don't know any white nationalists. When you catch a glimpse of one, take a picture. I need to know what they look like. I know you ain't talking about me, because it's little Puerto Rico here everyday. I'm learning how best to cook plantains, but I'm no good so far. We ate them anyway though, food's expensive.


Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.


No, that's just a Republican talking point. The people we call Nazis are genuine racist white nationalists. The question is, are you going to continue to deny there's a racism problem, or will you concede most liberals don't count most Republicans as bigots, and would like to see said Republicans take a stand against racists along with liberals?


No, that is my personal observation based on listening to democrats.


Well then, I'll step up and say that they're wrong.


You are among the ones I have been listening to.



cyberdad
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26 Aug 2019, 4:15 am

Persephone29 wrote:
I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.


You seem to have an irrational fear of antifa, it's a little odd but I guess you are entitled to your phobias.



Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 4:23 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I don't know any white nationalists. When you catch a glimpse of one, take a picture. I need to know what they look like. I know you ain't talking about me, because it's little Puerto Rico here everyday. I'm learning how best to cook plantains, but I'm no good so far. We ate them anyway though, food's expensive.


Basically most republicans are described as being a nazis. Or put another way if you are not a democrat, you are either a nazi or might as well be one.


No, that's just a Republican talking point. The people we call Nazis are genuine racist white nationalists. The question is, are you going to continue to deny there's a racism problem, or will you concede most liberals don't count most Republicans as bigots, and would like to see said Republicans take a stand against racists along with liberals?


No, that is my personal observation based on listening to democrats.


Well then, I'll step up and say that they're wrong.


You are among the ones I have been listening to.


I have never accused all or even most conservatives of being racists. Maybe racially insensitive, and buying into the myth that all Americans are on an equal footing regardless of color or background, but hardly violently racist.


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cyberdad
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26 Aug 2019, 4:29 am

Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

I suppose you must have skipped the good samaritan parable in bible class huh...it's funny when you hear conservatives talk about "old fashioned values" but what they really mean is olden day prejudice. There were very good people across the historical eras who welcomed the downtrodden into their lands/homes and didn't care what their skin colour, religion or cultural background.



LoveNotHate
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26 Aug 2019, 4:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously doubt anyone could make a sound argument for the American white nationalist movement being to the left

A nationalist is just a variant of a liberal, because the nationalist argues against individualism and for collectivism (collective of white people).

That's why Nationalism & Socialism go together like P & J.

Image


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kraftiekortie
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26 Aug 2019, 4:48 am

If they are radical, right-wing socialists like those who govern China.



Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 5:07 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I seriously doubt anyone could make a sound argument for the American white nationalist movement being to the left

A nationalist is just a variant of a liberal, because the nationalist argues against individualism and for collectivism (collective of white people).

That's why Nationalism & Socialism go together like P & J.

Image


Uh... no. If you read your own source, you'll see that liberals are all for civil liberties for everyone. Racism is the very antithesis of civil rights, and so can't possibly belong to the liberal political ideology.
There isn't a white nationalist today in America who would possibly call themselves liberals. In fact, they're opposed entirely to the left's policies.
Your claims are baseless.
And who says the left is for collectivism? No, we liberals just want the government to step in when the individual isn't able to cure social ills without government intervention.


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Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 5:09 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If they are radical, right-wing socialists like those who govern China.


They aren't, though.


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26 Aug 2019, 5:25 am

from watching righties for the better part of a century alternately ridicule and castigate third way proponents and by extension the way hundreds of millions of folk live in the scandinavian/northern european/commonwealth nations, i can only conclude they are just prejudiced against the working class, IOW it is a bourgeois middle-class psychological dynamic going on here. IOW if one isn't solidly prosperous or at least "a temporarily embarrassed millionaire," then one is the lumpen prole or riff-raff, to be looked down on, scorned- and that people who ARE bourgeois who are not also piling on along with the righties, are subversive and "class traitors."



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26 Aug 2019, 6:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

I suppose you must have skipped the good samaritan parable in bible class huh...it's funny when you hear conservatives talk about "old fashioned values" but what they really mean is olden day prejudice. There were very good people across the historical eras who welcomed the downtrodden into their lands/homes and didn't care what their skin colour, religion or cultural background.



"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
2 Thessalonians 3:10

Good Samaritanism is meant to be an act of compassion: finding someone beaten on the side of the road, helping or getting them help. It's not meant to be a lifetime commitment. By all means, help someone. I give the homeless guy money, when I have it to spare. But we don't have a set up where he meets me every Friday for his weekly donation.


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kraftiekortie
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26 Aug 2019, 7:10 am

If one makes that sort of arrangement (the “weekly donation”), it might just end up biting the donor in the butt. It’s happened to me—though it was more like a nip than a bite.

You have some people who are truly grateful. And who use it as an impetus for their own betterment.

Others, though, demand a dollar after you give a dime—then do great damage if the dollar is refused him/her.

You have to be careful of starting a vicious cycle.



EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 8:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.


You seem to have an irrational fear of antifa, it's a little odd but I guess you are entitled to your phobias.


Yeah sure she's an antifaphobe.



EzraS
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26 Aug 2019, 8:30 am

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

I suppose you must have skipped the good samaritan parable in bible class huh...it's funny when you hear conservatives talk about "old fashioned values" but what they really mean is olden day prejudice. There were very good people across the historical eras who welcomed the downtrodden into their lands/homes and didn't care what their skin colour, religion or cultural background.



"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
2 Thessalonians 3:10

Good Samaritanism is meant to be an act of compassion: finding someone beaten on the side of the road, helping or getting them help. It's not meant to be a lifetime commitment. By all means, help someone. I give the homeless guy money, when I have it to spare. But we don't have a set up where he meets me every Friday for his weekly donation.


Also Ephesians 4:28, says: "If you are a thief, quit stealing. Instead, use your hands for good hard work, and then give generously to others in need."

Stealing in this case refers to mooching.



Persephone29
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26 Aug 2019, 8:42 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I'm staying away from Antifa to avoid a traumatic brain injury.


You seem to have an irrational fear of antifa, it's a little odd but I guess you are entitled to your phobias.


Yeah sure she's an antifaphobe.


The only phobia I possess, that I know of is Arachnophobia. No spider has ever looked at me or anyone and thought, "I am going to get them!" But, I don't like their legs and the fact that they can jump great distances and often land on people. It's unnerving and I will kill every large spider I see. That is irrational. Spiders do a lot of good, but I'm terrified of them. I can't help it.

I thought an 'irrational' fear was a phobia, a phobia is an irrational fear with no basis in reality. People get bashed over the head, harassed, assaulted, etc... for daring to wear a MAGA hat. I'd say that's a pretty real concern. I am finding that members often throw words into a debate, to give their points more bite. But the words themselves have a different meaning than the members would like.

I am not from Portland, Oregon. But, I would never go there because of the violence towards those who are deemed to not stand with the cause. To me, that's a fairly rational plan.


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Persephone29
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26 Aug 2019, 8:43 am

EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

I suppose you must have skipped the good samaritan parable in bible class huh...it's funny when you hear conservatives talk about "old fashioned values" but what they really mean is olden day prejudice. There were very good people across the historical eras who welcomed the downtrodden into their lands/homes and didn't care what their skin colour, religion or cultural background.



"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
2 Thessalonians 3:10

Good Samaritanism is meant to be an act of compassion: finding someone beaten on the side of the road, helping or getting them help. It's not meant to be a lifetime commitment. By all means, help someone. I give the homeless guy money, when I have it to spare. But we don't have a set up where he meets me every Friday for his weekly donation.


Also Ephesians 4:28, says: "If you are a thief, quit stealing. Instead, use your hands for good hard work, and then give generously to others in need."

Stealing in this case refers to mooching.



That's a great point. I was not familiar with this particular verse.


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Kraichgauer
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26 Aug 2019, 5:13 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
As I told Persephone29 I don't pretend to know who's ancestor had it worse or what obstacles they had to overcome. We live in a civilised world where the wealthy can share more of their earnings to pay for new migrants to help them find a place to live, free healthcare and free education (which is what they get in Australia).

1. Nothing is free when someone else is paying for it.
2. If by “immigrants” you mean illegal aliens they don’t belong here. As far as actual legitimate immigrants; if they are of any account they can make it on their own the same as all those who came before them. They’ll feel better about themselves for having done it without handouts and so will their descendants.

I suppose you must have skipped the good samaritan parable in bible class huh...it's funny when you hear conservatives talk about "old fashioned values" but what they really mean is olden day prejudice. There were very good people across the historical eras who welcomed the downtrodden into their lands/homes and didn't care what their skin colour, religion or cultural background.



"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
2 Thessalonians 3:10

Good Samaritanism is meant to be an act of compassion: finding someone beaten on the side of the road, helping or getting them help. It's not meant to be a lifetime commitment. By all means, help someone. I give the homeless guy money, when I have it to spare. But we don't have a set up where he meets me every Friday for his weekly donation.


The right is always taking that out of context, and applying it to poor people in general.


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