20 shooting victims in California active shooter situation -

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People willingly giving up their freedom in exchange for comfort and (often illusory) security existed since the beginning of time, or at least organised society. And there's always someone around to exploit that, the Spanish Inquisition for instance did a splendid job. Fear-mongering and turning people against each other make for very efficient and dangerous weapons. Once the witch hunt starts, it's impossible to stop and always ends in a bloodbath.

What part of her getting close to Abdul Aziz, and having family credentials of extremism did you miss ? And you accuse me of having reading comprehension problems. LOL.



Yes, given the girl's FAMILY and PERSONAL background - again, refer back to her becoming suddenly "more religious" after getting close to the elements at Lal Masjid. And, yes, again, if your child is getting married, it is reasonable to want to find out all you can about their potential partner and partner's family. "Meet the family" - sounds familiar to you ?



I don't give a rat's ass about what sort of person you are and don't want to waste my time asking / inquiring about you or your online habits here. You are immaterial to me.

And while you are at it, look up "Free Speech".

Last edited by HisMom on 07 Dec 2015, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah that is my concern, I don't want a police state in the name of keeping us safe from 'terrorism'... rehetoric about turning muslims into second class citizens because there are Islam extremists is a wonderful first step to a police state were they start rounding up people to imprison and kill. You know first they start with the muslims, then maybe the mentally ill, than maybe anyone who looks like they could be a muslim or from the middle east and of course on and on and so forth.

Alert is one thing...but foaming at the mouth with hateful rhetoric towards the whole lot of Muslims certainly won't solve anything and I feel that's actually counterproductive to being alert. I see no issue with people feeling on alert and being angry but its not an excuse for hate or calling for oppression of a whole group.

To all the bleeding hearts RANTING about "racial profiling", here's some news for you.

Jihadis comes in ALL races and skin colour. There are Arab Jihadis, there are South Asian Jihadis, there are Caucasian Jihadis, there are black Jihadis, there are even Malaysian and Indonesian Jihadis. Secondly, it's very hard to tell who is a Jihadi and who is not, simply by looking at someone, knowing their name, and / or suspecting them, based on their apparent religion alone. Then again, there are those converts - Sally Jones from Kent does not look or sound like a Jihadi (whatever Jihadis are assumed / supposed to look like) but she is a very very dangerous woman who has released photographs and hate speeches threatening to "cut off Christian heads".

So, if anyone was running around SOLELY looking for (and profiling) Middle Eastern or South Asian folks who had Muslim names and sported beards or burqas, then they are idiots. They would certainly have missed the likes of "Sally Jones" at least, via that "method". When I say "be alert" and "call in with concerns", I mean that people should not be afraid to report ANY suspicious activities by ANYONE - regardless of whether that individual is white / black / brown / yellow / pink / purple / green / orange, or Christian / Muslim / Hindu / Jew / atheist / agnostic / any combinations thereof.

I agree -- on it's face, working in one's garage in the middle of the night is NO ONE's business but one's own. *However*, something caused the neighbours to become suspicious and wary. Maybe it was their gut instinct that told them that Farooq and Tashfeen were up to no good. BUT, because of people like the bleeding hearts here, these neighbours were scared to call the police all because said neighbour was a South Asian Muslim and they didn't want to accused of racism and bigotry. THAT is my gripe. If you have reasonable cause for concern about X, Y or Z, then you should not be afraid or intimidated from reporting it. You should not be worried about being called fancy names (bigot seems to be a favourite one around here), you should do whatever you should do without feeling worried about potential bullying or accusations of racism.

Listen, I had some compassion for you after you revealed that you were involved in an "active shooter" situation. But you certainly didn't lose your life and you don't seem to have lost any loved ones (thank God) ! So how about you lay off the PC BS until after you actually have a clue about what it feels like to be maimed or lose a spouse / parent / loved one to a wanna-be "Jihadi" ? "Foaming at the mouth at all Muslims and want to oppress all Muslims" ? REALLY ? Do you even read the nonsense you post ? Wanting to have tighter gun ownership laws (as in no guns for you if you are a recent immigrant from a "red-flagged" country"), and wanting people to be alert and not hesitating to call the cops -- without feeling intimidated and worried about being name called by complete strangers -- is "hating an entire group of people" ?

The irony is that even WITH some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the country, this California couple still managed to amass assault rifles and enough ammunition to cause large scale damage. THANK GOD they were taken out before they could completely wreck an entire county !

And, again, what part of Farooq Sr's delusional ranting against the Jews did you miss ? The peace loving, religious, father of 4, "comforted" his son saying that Israel needs to be taken out via political maneuvering as opposed to an active war. "WE tried and WE failed" were supposedly his words, which is interesting considering that neither Pakistan nor America has been at active war with Israel. Tells you where the head of the family's sympathies lie. The family claims to have NO clue about Farooq Jr's and Tashfeen's activities, even though they ALL seem to have shared a home until recently and the mother regularly watched their baby. But you want believe that NONE OF THEM noticed the multiple rounds of ammunition and the assault rifles in their home ? AND you want to believe that NONE of them knew about Tashfeen's Lal Masjid connections ? That this was just a peace-loving family, despite the father's open admissions to a reporter ? Fine... if that makes everything roses and unicorns in whatever la-la land you exist.

But *this* is why people are so afraid to ask questions / voice opinions. NO ONE wants to get jumped on as a "bigot".

Take a deep breath, HisMom.

HisMom, without meaning any offence, I think you might not understand very well what some of us are saying and think that if people disagree with you they automatically must be at the opposite extreme.

Yes, suspicious behaviour should be reported, regardless of race etc. The question here was, is growing a beard suspicious on a blond man as myself or only on dark hair/ darker skinned one? Is the person wearing a turban some dangerous Muslim terrorist or just an innocent Sikh as the ones that maniac shot for exactly this reason?

Yes, one should be alert and vigilant. But one should also be rational and use common sense. For instance, actively encouraging people to be paranoid, spy and report their neighbours for being insomniacs or private is a terrible and dangerous idea.

By reading this thread, I'm quite sure nobody here supports terrorism, nor are they indifferent to the tragedy of the victims and their families. We all want to find ways to deal with this, ones that don't involve violating the constitution, stripping citizens of their rights based on their religious views, or caving in to fear and panic and creating lynch mobs.

Anybody can post on this topic, being a victim of violence is not a necessary requirement. As someone who actually lost loved ones in violent circumstances, and recently so, I can assure you I would never trivialise it by making a spectacle out of my loss on the internet or demanding that my view carry more weight.

I lost a fellow student I knew, but yes it could have been someone much closer. Also I don't know what PC BS you are talking about I don't hate every Muslim because the actions of terrorists.

What now its being overly politically correct just to not hate all muslims and state that I believe it is wrong to hate or marginalize an entire group over the actions of some?

Also I never said people should hesitate from taking action if they see suspicious activity on account of being too afraid of offending someone and I certainly do not think that at all. And I am not an immigration expert but I imagine recent immigrants from red flagged nations probably aren't immediately considered citizens thus would have to go through citizenship and naturalization processes before they'd even be granted the right to own a gun. Those things are not 'hating/opressing a whole group' but taking rights away from muslims that most U.S citizens enjoy, or rounding them up or putting them all on some kind of list of 'suspicious characters' simply for being muslim would be and if I am not mistaking that is the kind of thing you've called for or at least that is how it came across.

Also I haven't been filling my head with everything reported to have been said by this mass shooter, I don't want to fill my head with that stuff he was a murderous coward...why do I want to know what he had to say? Glad him and that woman were stopped. Plus I have to be careful just how much I expose myself to the reports due to that incident I mentioned before plus I wouldn't be suprised to hear another violent incident soon so don't want to bombard myself too much with this here, that colorado springs thing and the paris attack in case I get to hear about another one.

I think it's wise to be alert to one's environment and to be aware of possible dangers. I think the clash in viewpoints is due to a lack of a definition of "alert." If I was in an environment with a person of the Muslim faith, this would not trigger an increased level of alertness in me. Religion in general is not a trigger for me. Neither is race. An alert would be if I was in an environment with someone who is threatening me or participating in illegal activity.
There is nothing that the killers did in this case (that is publicly known) that would have alerted people to the danger.

Please go back and re-read my post about Jihadis coming in many different skin colours and racial heritage, which would render profiling by race / facial features / names / professed religions (or lack thereof) / clothing and attire completely USELESS. The problem arises when people call in to report a "certain profile" of folks -- their nagging suspicions and discomfort are IMMEDIATELY discounted and they tend to get jumped on for being a racist and a bigot, merely because of the racial or religious profile of the subject.

And IF you don't know the difference between being alert and careful vs. the paranoid spying of neighbours, then that is your problem, not mine.

To directly answer your question : your blonde beard won't evoke suspicions in me any more than the dark beard of my Sikh neighbour, directly across the street from me. HOWEVER, if your behaviour / attitude / speech seems out of the ordinary and make me uncomfortable, then yes, you will make me suspicious. Not because you're blonde and sport a beard, but because of the "vibes" that you give out.




Again, your interpretations. I never said to create lynch mobs or to strip folks of basic civil rights, but if you interpreted it as such, then you have to question where your bias comes from.



I have never shared any background or circumstances here. But yes, YOU *are* demanding that your opinion carry more weight than mine and by discounting my opinions, calling me a bigot, and just plain putting words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out how those who seem to have had minimal to no experience of personal violence seemed to be those most vocal about "equal rights", "bigotry", "racism" etc.

Last edited by HisMom on 07 Dec 2015, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Who is hating the muslims? I just said it's some people from that group who are converting to this new kind of religion. On Channel 4 over here, years ago they did a Dispatches programme secretly filming what went on in the mosque in Camden Town, for instance. They were all preaching hate and to kill us.

HisMom, your hostility baffles me - I never called you a bigot or discounted your opinions, my post was merely trying to further clarify my position through examples, not "to put words in your mouth".

I was trying to find some common ground as I don't want to see an otherwise interesting thread escalating or getting locked again.

Obviously an epic fail on my part

I would have assumed that obviously secretive/suspicious behavior would have been reported, especially since Malik wore the hijab and Farook was wearing the beard and hat and traditional Muslim clothes.

I do not know how much space the guns, ammunition, and bombs, took, but I read that that stuff was all in their garage.

If they kept the garage locked, it is possible that their family did not know.

People, no one specific really political rhetoric, a few comments in this thread, social media ect suggest many people are reacting with hate and paranoia concerning all Muslims to this incident. I take issue with that but i do not take issue with people being alert and having some caution, unless its to the point of giving up rights and freedoms in the name of safety.

(I really need to be studying, but I was checking my emails.)
Anyway, I agree with this too. The thing is if people don't want a police state and Marshall Law, then the only other way is to ban any and all gun restrictions and let the citizens arm themselves so they can at least have some form of protection from these bastards. (Kansas has already done this with no conceal carry licenses needed so actually anyone can carry - similar to the Old West.) Businesses and schools also need more weapons. Closing the borders will not help because these idiots are getting in by legal methods and have no records. There's also going to be a problem if you start having suicide bombers - there will be no protection from that. Freedom always comes with a cost.

I don't think this about "Muslims".

This is about people who feel they are lacking something , and join a group to fulfill that need.

The group could be anything.