Kentucky church wants members to bring their guns

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Na, they're designed to propel a projectile at high speeds.

And the "purpose" of the church is irrelevant to this discussion.

LOL, I can't dispute that one


Sorry, I should have made myself a bit more clear there. Guns are raffled off daily and in many locations, small and large. Since the building was a church (bear with me a sec, now), its purpose is to lead people to everlasting life. The juxtaposition of this with an item involved with taking life is the very reason this raffle made news.

Does that make more sense?

I always enjoy the strength of your posts, Vibratetogether! If anyone convinces you to join a particular cause, you'll be one of their strongest supporters for sure.

Well, there is an argument to be made that guns are also involved with the protection of life.



Thanks! Love to get positive feedback.



If only I could find a cause that was in line with my views.....

Tried the far left, but I dig personal liberties and economic freedom.

Tried the Libertarians, but I'm not a survivalist or conspiracy nut.

Tried Atheist/Agnostic groups, but they're just people that like to get together and feel superior to everybody. No real interest in changing things.

I should start my own group.

Again, I cannot refute that; you're being quite logical here. I think what interests the media is that the handguns have to protect life by either taking life or acting as a threat of taking life. Both of these, while ultimately resulting in protection (I agree with you), still employ means opposite to the assumed views of the venue.

So, in my opinion, I think there's room for both of our reasoning/views here.



Dang, you've tried a lot of different things! Of course, you could always join the Christians... I know a place you can attend while packin' heat !
Curious: if you did start your own group, what would be the guiding tenet(s)? A bit from each thing you've tried? Or something completely different?

Jesus said, when in doubt, empty the magazine.

In detail, I'm not quite sure, in brief : freedom and love with smart economics.

Matt. 7:1 : "Judge not: let God sort 'em out!" O.o

All the religious aspects aside..
That said bringing specifically unloaded guns. Can't kill people with those, anyways.
I think of guns more as a hobby, I enjoy target shooting.
Lots of church rec areas also have karate classes.. is that wrong?
For that matter, my shrink's practice also has martial arts classes, both for self-defense/confidence and anger-management purposes.

No one has been able to provide a rational argument against that congregation having a "bring your gun to church" day. For that matter no one has ever been able to come up with any argument against gun ownership itself that's much better than "gunz-r-bad".
This topic has come up here many times before and the hand wringing anti-gun crowd always ends up getting their feeble arguments shot to pieces (no pun intended).

I'll admit that if I was the pastor of a church I probably wouldn't have or think to have all of the congregation bring their hardware to services but on the other hand I wouldn't condemn any other church for doing it.
I'd be very likely to encourage and have gun related events after church, though, in the form of safety classes, shooting matches, etc.
A raffle for a gun would be fine, too.
If members of the congregation choose to carry a concealed handguns to services that's their right and I'd do the same.

I think this church's "gun day" has a darker meaning when you look at the history of that denomination, namely Southern Baptist. That church was founded as pro slavery at a time when many Christians in America were becoming ardent abolitionists (aka anti slavery) - the SB preached that slavery was moral and OK according to the Bible.

During the post civil war era many White Baptists were part of the KKK's techniques to terrorize the Black community. The NRA was founded the same year as the KKK by many of the same people. The pro gun movement in the South has always been based on Afro-phobia - phrase like "protecting your right to bare arms" are understood as meaning "protect your wife and daughter from Negro savages" by most NRA members

While some of those things are true, your conclusions assume a great deal. I would imagine many more NRA members would say (and mean) that their greatest concern is the government, as opposed to black people.

Do you have any reputable sources to back that up?

Uh oh, another person who didn't realize that Bowling for Columbine was a work of fiction, the Academy not withstanding. Where to begin:

The KKK was founded in 1866, the NRA in 1871, not that that proves anything other than that Michael Moore can't get his facts straight.

The NRA was founded by former Union officers and 8 of the first ten presidents of the NRA were former Union soldiers, AKA the people who fought against slavery, in New York, not The South.

U.S. Grant, the man who crushed the Confederacy, signed the Ku Klux Klan act and the Enforcement Act in 1971, which were then used to send in federal troops to suppress the Klan, arresting over 5,000 of them. U.S. Grant was later elected as 8th president of the NRA after leaving the White House, and was praised by Frederick Douglas for his actions. The 9th President of the NRA was General Phillip Sheridan, who had used his occupying forces to remove the governors of Texas and Louisiana for failure to suppress the Klan.

During the 1950's and 1960's, black chapters of the NRA where formed in order to qualify to receive surplus military rifles for fending off the Klan. In fact, many of the laws banning the carrying of weapons were passed in direct response to armed blacks defending themselves from attacks, so if anyone has some racist skeletons in their collective closet, it's the advocates of gun control.

In short, friends don't let friends trust the fat man, and I suggest carefully checking any "facts" gleaned from his films before using them in debate.

Absolute Bullsh1t! The KKK was founded in Pulaski Tenn. on December 24th 1865 by three former Confederate soldiers. This link has the info you are too damn lazy to look up.

The NRA was founded by two high Ranking Union Officers in 1871. This link has that information you were too lazy to look up. In addition there is a book available called The Fiery Cross written by Wynn Craig Wade that credits the NRA with specifically helping the blacks against the KKK. Get the book from your local library and use the index.

Last edited by velodog on 06 Jun 2009, 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

I got so busy responding to AspieCards blatant bs that I missed this well put together response by the Doxman. Well stated, as usual, Dox47!

I agree with what AspieCard and VeloDog wrote, but feel the need to make the slightly off-topic point that the civil war was much more about states' rights than slavery at all. Robert E. Lee was an abolitionist and was the first person that Lincoln asked to lead the Union army. Slavery was an issue in the civil war, but it was far from being the entire issue.