*sigh* all together now...HE WAS ASPIE. Right, NTs?

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I am somewhat ashamed by fellow Aspies taking such an illogical position as to refuse to consider that this shooter had AS. He worked with computers...he was unable to make friends...he recognized that in some way he was socially offputting, but he could not figure out what it was. Gee, how crazy to think he might have had AS! (That's sarcasm.)

You know, just because you don't WANT him to have had AS, and just because you fear there will be some backlash to the AS community if people agree he may have had AS, does not change the OBJECTIVE REALITY that he may have had AS.

I've always prided myself on making decisions based on sound, objective reasoning, not prejudice or bias or emotional slant. When I figured out I had AS, I expected to find a like-minded community. This thread is seriously disheartening in that respect, because you have shown yourself capable of as much self-deception and interest-driven self-delusion as any NT I've ever come across.

Yes, some psycho-killers may have AS. And some are gay, but that does not mean everyone is afraid of gay people.

Anyway, it seems incredibly obtuse to ignore the fact that if you have AS, you have difficulty being social which, in turn, increases your chance of social isolation. And social isolation, in turn, can be a breeding ground for other psychological disorders to thrive.

I'm not saying AS caused him to kill, nor did being white, nor did being male. He had some other psychological problems. But to suggest he could not have had AS because he killed, is just plain wrong. AS has not been proven to make one immune from being sociopathic or psychopathic.

When you take positions on these matters based on what you perceive to be in your own self-interest, rather than what appears objectively true, you necessarily lose credibility which, in turn HURTS your image and, in turn HURTS your long-term self-interest. Or at least, that's my position.

If it's true that this guy might have had AS -- and it clearly is true that that is possible -- then those Aspies who adamantly deny it is possibe do themselves and the entire AS community a disservice.

That "hit the nail on the head", I was thinking about this on the way to work. Despite what you might be told no body has a right to a happy sex life, if you do find someone who you love and find attractive (and have sex with) then be happy and glad. It was not your right but your good fortune to meet them and do xyz abc blagh blagh etc.

The idea of a right to have sex brings a problem, what about the right of the person you fancy to say "no thanks" ?

I know what you mean. I got trashed on an Asperger Syndrome group on Facebook because I suggested the possibility that Cho Seung-Hui (the Virginia Tech shooter) may have had undiagnosed Asperger's which might have led to a lot of pain and ignorance he endured to compel him to commit the shootings. In fact, Cho probably was 10x more likely of having AS than this guy and I honestly believe this if you look at the facts...and because there are so many similarities between Cho and me that it's downright frightening.



Psychologically, how any aspie turns out really depends on what kind of environment they grow up in. Everyone on here has a different way of looking at their AS based on what kind of lives they had and based on their satisfaction of it. I agree that AS is not a cause but given how ignorant the NT society can get, it becomes all too easy for something like AS to become a scapegoat. If the guy did have AS and it becomes to widely pushed in your face by the media I can see people quickly attacking it. Looking back at the Virginia Tech shootings...the media was over-pushing the fact that Cho was Korean...far too much in fact, that I had a couple of Korean friends get harrassed on the street the day the shootings happened. I think that's why some people don't want to rush to conclusions. Small theories can easily become scapegoats by idiots in the media and a scapegoat announced by the media is all you need to screw society over.

I'm in the mood to be me for a bit.

Let's see, this gym shooter fellow's country's Declaration of Independence says people have certain inalienable rights, "among these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

So then, you're free to go chase sex all ya want: whether you get any depends if the chasee wants to give any.
(dude, you gotta make them want to be caught.)
(and that takes work - a lot of work)
(it's like fishing, you may have great bait, but they might still not take your hook today)


And then there's the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights from 1948 which says:

Sounds like the shooter to me.


He kind of violated their freedom from fear, eh.


Okay dude, looks like you've got a right to see if you can make progress in your social life.
But I still don't see anything about a right to get laid.

Whatever. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

THE question: Why do you want him to be? To prove a point? And what's that?

You do seem to have an agenda. Okey dokey. He may be an Aspergian killer - who knows? Why do you want to know? We stated our views - is this not adequate for your needs? Why or why not? <rhetorial question>

Sure, any human (including Aspie) can kill. Perhaps he had co-morbid condition &/or we know just part of the story the media chooses to reveal. Will point out to you that just because an individual is an introverted computer programmer does NOT make one an Aspie! Holy cow, frinj.
In logic this is termed a bilateral thought error, or error by deduction.

Quite like saying "All dogs are brown." True, lots of dogs are brown or shades of. So??? Some aren't. Got it?

In any case, WHAT'S THE FREAKING POINT?
No one is denying anything nor ignoring the situation. So? What's the issue?

Again, this seems to be a personal agenda on your part. So maybe you ought to ask YOURSELF the question insteading of milking for answers, yes? Besides, if you already *know* then why ask?

This is on the edge of Flaming, frinj.

Others gave their best shot, you're not liking. Then impasse.

<so ready to lock this thread - becoming futile and therefore tiresome>

Respondants are not being illogical; merely stating the improbability since some of profile is incongruent. Nothing more and nothing less.
If killer is an Aspie, SO??? Do you want him to be? [Why?] Are you trying to prove something?

Lab Pet bit someone once...does that count? Thinking you've stated your position - now get on with it.


As per WP rules, lets not have any name calling, such as saying ".....[we] have shown yourself capable of .....self-deception and interest driven self-delusion as any NT...or "we're in denial." blah blah blah
We stated what defines AS, NOT denying your stance, yet you still puruse. What's that about?

Lab Pet's not in the mood to play this game. And NOT liking you're labeling US as 'deluded.' You have a right to your opinon. If you don't like our statements (basic modicum of description of ASD individuals) then TOO FREAKING BAD. Your killer can be Autistic is you want - whatever. Your stance is moot.

"Lab Pet bit someone once...does that count? Thinking you've stated your position - now get on with it"
Don't feel bad about that my younger son < auntie> Jake bit his bus driver a few weeks ago, My youngest brother <as> bit his vice princapal when he was 5 and I < nt> bit a girl that wouldn't stop poking me at nap time when I was little. None of us have pulled a gun out a shot anyone. We all have our bad days but it doesn't make us killers.
Maybe this guy did have AS maybe he had something else miss firing in his head what ever it might or might not have been we'll never know t's hard to test someone after they died. What ever was the matter with him it doesn't excuse what he did.
No one has the right to sex in most places taking sex on demand is rape. Everyone would like to have more or any sex at times the rest of us just preform selfhelp and don't go and kill abuch of strangers because we would have like to touch their nono spots.

Thanks CRD....Lab Pet totally agrees. And you stated the overarching message. Just because one is an Autist doesn't imply "psyco killer."

The point that I see in all of this is that if he actually did have AS (which is impossible to now know) it shows how important accurate diagnosis for adults is. In the culture at large (in the U.S. where I live), there is a small war going on about whether a person seeking an adult diagnosis is a person in turmoil who needs help, explanation and a sense of community or if they are an obnoxious jerk seeking an excuse to continue being a jerk. It seems self-evident that it's the former. Yet a lot of extremely vocal people are arguing the latter and many of these people have radio or TV shows and book contracts (Dennis Leary devoted a chapter to his idea that it was jerks looking for an excuse). And these people are poisoning public opinion against diagnosis. Of course nobody wants to have this guy as the public face of AS. It's only natural to prefer Einstein, Andy Warhol and the sweet movie character "Adam". If this guy actually had AS and was able to find support or at least understanding from somebody, would it have turned out differently? That's why I think it should be acceptable to put it on the table that he MIGHT have had it and that it points to the need for adult diagnosis which is currently being very actively frowned upon by pop media pundits.

I am NOT!! ! saying every Aspie is hair-trigger. I'm saying there may be 1 or 2 who are out of thousands and thousands of Aspies. This guy may have been one. Or may not. Impossible to know for sure. But to shut out even the possibility that he could have had undiagnosed AS on the strength of the thousands and thousands who would never do such a thing makes it that much harder to get help to the next 1-in-5,000 guy who may do this.

LabPet:

Maybe you should re-read my post, because I NEVER said this shooter has AS. So your rant asking why I want him to have it is completely misplaced. I simply recoil in disgust when I see people engage in dissembling and perhaps outright dishonesty because it serves their personal agenda.

Look, I completely understand why people with AS would want to distance themselves from this shooter -- who wouldn't? But to claim that this guy did NOT have AS simply because you want it to be so, or because you think such an assertion benefits the AS community at large, is not right. To me, once you go down that road, you lose all credibility.

Anyway, this thread seemed to be a bandwagon people were too eager to jump upon, claiming this guy did not have AS, without much substance to support that position apart from wishful thinking, and I wanted to reign that in.

For you to read my post as claiming this guy does have AS is evidence you are not reading very carefully, or you were just looking for a fight. Go back and re-read my post.

The point being made by many is the fear to a rush of judgment, to say "oh he had [x] which is why he did it" which serves no purpose other than a false balm on fear. There is in no way, shape or form enough information available for anyone to make an assessment of whether or not the individual in question had AS... which makes the conjecture essentially cerebral masturbation. For anyone to make a claim, either way, is not sound or grounded in any factual basis.


M.

Well put.

Made me think of antisocial personality disorder, the newer term for Psychopath, and definately misleading, as a casual reader might assume someone with this disorder has AS, which of course would be horrible.

Anyway, whatever he had, he's fail at logic. He sure isn't ever going to get a date now.

This man fits the profile for AS. He could have had it and I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually got mentioned in the media. But they better not link it to AS or use it as an excuse.

I think the original post was a comment on society in general. Sadly alot of nts will read that article and make that assumption. I'm sure nothing against the publisher of the article was intended. Knowing my luck I will hit send, then realise I've got it wrong by not reading all the replies ...

Actually, you summed up the case very well! I agree; there can be misconceptions about Autists and assumptions just do not work in lieu of reasoning, just like you indicated.