23 Jan 2011, 7:48 pm
23 Jan 2011, 8:29 pm
24 Jan 2011, 4:44 am
I hate to keep repeating myself but people seem to forget that temperature may not be the biggest threat.
yes c02 is not the only factor in that but people seem to keep over looking how c02 is acidifying out oceans and without said ocean, we are kind of screwed/
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24 Jan 2011, 10:36 am
24 Jan 2011, 12:42 pm
24 Jan 2011, 1:15 pm
John_Browning
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
25 Jan 2011, 1:02 am
Horus wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
...And they were reporting record cold a month ago... 
Back at you.I suppose you're yet another right-winger who believes global warming can't possibly be occuring SIMPLY because we've had some record-breaking cold in North America.
You may wish to rethink that idea:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/07/n ... al-causes/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rming.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... =worldwide
That is all still theoretical.
25 Jan 2011, 7:12 am
John_Browning wrote:
Horus wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
...And they were reporting record cold a month ago...
Back at you.I suppose you're yet another right-winger who believes global warming can't possibly be occuring SIMPLY because we've had some record-breaking cold in North America.
You may wish to rethink that idea:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/07/n ... al-causes/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rming.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... =worldwide
That is all still theoretical.
If so....then there's no reason to roll your eyes at something which may yet prove to be objective truth is there?
Here's something else that's still "theoretical":
I think it's possible many of you right-wingers would STILL dismiss global warming with some absurd line of reasoning even if the truth of it proved to be as plain and objective as the pacific ocean.
That is.....if it was proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, to have anthropogenic causes.
This is likely because it would interfere with the rather sociopathic conception of individualism many of you folks on the right seem to have.
You know....."the right", "the freedom", "the liberty"....to do and have anything you damn well please regardless of the consequences to anyone/anything else.
That's generally what those on the right mean when they cluck about "freedom" and "liberty" right?
For one example....the "freedom" and "liberty" to make as much money as one possibly can even if it means paying one's slaves.... oh excuse me....."employees"
.....less than a living wage and subjecting them to hazardous workplace conditions.
For another.....the "freedom" and "liberty" to own 11 mansions and 17 yachts even if it means wiping out the world's rainforests and coral reefs.
That's pretty much how it at least SEEMS TO WORK with the Rush Limbaugh crowd eh?
If so....there's something that's worthy of far more than just a mere eye-roll.
27 Jan 2011, 6:55 pm
29 Jan 2011, 1:19 pm
30 Jan 2011, 6:46 am
30 Jan 2011, 8:04 am
Wombat wrote:
OMG! The world is freezing so let's blame it on global warming.
The Australian Prime Minister is determined to bring in a "carbon tax" which will be managed by a company called "Rothchild Australia"
Gee.... fancy that. Who would have thunk it?
The Australian Prime Minister is determined to bring in a "carbon tax" which will be managed by a company called "Rothchild Australia"
Gee.... fancy that. Who would have thunk it?
Rothschilds, i am NOT suprised.
I do believe climate change is real and that c02 is a contributing factor (not the only one of course), BUT the Rothschilds are simply capitalising on an existing problem.
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30 Jan 2011, 3:59 pm
30 Jan 2011, 5:26 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
Inventor wrote:
We have been through worse, and it is working out for the jelly fish.
In the late 20s, the Mississippi flooded from Canada to the gulf, farther back the Jonestown flood, both killed many. Nothing like that recently.
Being on the south coast, we get storms. Hundred mile an hour wind, rain coming an inch an hour, storm surges, which have a long history. Nothing new there, no change from the historic norm.
The oceans are changing, we have a Dead Zone, it grows, caused by everything dumped in the Mississippi, sewer and farm runoff, and New York and LA also use the ocean for a sewer. New York burns it's garbage and dumps the ash off shore. Solids from sewer treatment go to the same site.
We used to have an exclusive in dead zones, but now they are worldwide, as everyone follows the New York model.
Blaming greenhouse gasses seems a coverup for a lack of a sewer treatment and landfill disposal plan.
Greenhouse gasses cause drought, not clear cutting forests for farming and ranching.
A warmer drier world and more greenhouse gasses are the result of some well known problems, not the cause.
If someone is bleeding, better methods of cleaning the blood from the floor, may seem the answer to some.
Greenhouse gasses and climate change is like trying to stop an ice age with a bonfire. The Methane from the Arctic is by far much worse than CO2.
We are in for the ride, and what we can do is stop using the oceans for a dump. and plant trees, lots of trees.
Shuting down all industry and ending electric power would not slow the rise of greenhouse gasses. Planting trees will.
Taxing the result of the problem is New Left Thinking.
With the decline of building, news papers, there are a lot of trees just growing. Planting more trees on a long cycle will do more to buffer the climate than giving a tax to government, to regulate and continue the existing power grid.
Someone is out to take over legal investor owned utilities.
Cap and Trade does not sound like clean and reduce.
The Clean Air and Water Acts of the 70s worked, until it came to governments who used the rivers and oceans for a dump.
The taxes imposed for Superfund toxic waste cleanup, were used by government, and the superfund sites are still with us.
We cannot stop or reverse climate change, we can only do what we can to leave a better world for the future.
Government has only produced debt, wasted trillions, reduced the value of everything we own, by trying to regulate everything.
We do not need another tax, we need another system.
In the late 20s, the Mississippi flooded from Canada to the gulf, farther back the Jonestown flood, both killed many. Nothing like that recently.
Being on the south coast, we get storms. Hundred mile an hour wind, rain coming an inch an hour, storm surges, which have a long history. Nothing new there, no change from the historic norm.
The oceans are changing, we have a Dead Zone, it grows, caused by everything dumped in the Mississippi, sewer and farm runoff, and New York and LA also use the ocean for a sewer. New York burns it's garbage and dumps the ash off shore. Solids from sewer treatment go to the same site.
We used to have an exclusive in dead zones, but now they are worldwide, as everyone follows the New York model.
Blaming greenhouse gasses seems a coverup for a lack of a sewer treatment and landfill disposal plan.
Greenhouse gasses cause drought, not clear cutting forests for farming and ranching.
A warmer drier world and more greenhouse gasses are the result of some well known problems, not the cause.
If someone is bleeding, better methods of cleaning the blood from the floor, may seem the answer to some.
Greenhouse gasses and climate change is like trying to stop an ice age with a bonfire. The Methane from the Arctic is by far much worse than CO2.
We are in for the ride, and what we can do is stop using the oceans for a dump. and plant trees, lots of trees.
Shuting down all industry and ending electric power would not slow the rise of greenhouse gasses. Planting trees will.
Taxing the result of the problem is New Left Thinking.
With the decline of building, news papers, there are a lot of trees just growing. Planting more trees on a long cycle will do more to buffer the climate than giving a tax to government, to regulate and continue the existing power grid.
Someone is out to take over legal investor owned utilities.
Cap and Trade does not sound like clean and reduce.
The Clean Air and Water Acts of the 70s worked, until it came to governments who used the rivers and oceans for a dump.
The taxes imposed for Superfund toxic waste cleanup, were used by government, and the superfund sites are still with us.
We cannot stop or reverse climate change, we can only do what we can to leave a better world for the future.
Government has only produced debt, wasted trillions, reduced the value of everything we own, by trying to regulate everything.
We do not need another tax, we need another system.
Well said.
Edit:
Also it appears Glaciers in some places are growing not shrinking.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/29/g ... t-so-much/
Aye really well said. This is why i prefer the term Climate Change rather than Global Warming. 'Change' happens in many ways
Quote:
We do not need another tax, we need another system.
A renewable infra-structure is possible in my opinion, but it may be that a new system will come about as we realise that oil is not going to take us any further. People hopefully will all realise we need to work together and that everyone across the world will do what we should have done 2-3 decades ago;
plant trees and hemp everywhere, work together to insulate every home, stop wasting the materials we currently have, start redesigning the grid so that we can use microgrids (grids for remote isolated places away from the normal grid), smartgrids (city sizes grids with localised energy production from solar and wind around the city and on every home), supergrids (massive cross continental grids so that power from solar by the equator can be transfered anywhere and wind energy can be transferred anywhere, geothermal can be transferred anywhere)....
government should eventually be abolished and tasks should be automated where ever possible. Agriculture, transport, production, education in some cases even (most things taught in school are repetitive and an interactive computer system can remember a lot more details), complex medical procedures . some people call that nuts, but you trust an alarm clock to wake you up, a washing machine to run a specific program, a plane to fly in auto pilot.
If we are to have people in power able to make decisions for society they should be and always should have been the people with the best technical expertise. What use it a politician and a banker trying to "fix" a broken system when they do not understand the scientific basis as well as the scientists and engineers. All the politicians and bankers can do is write laws and write cheques.
my favourite bit of a resource based economy (no money involved) would be knowing that that science would really be science and that fraudulant corporate funded science or politically influenced science would be an embarrassing joke of history.
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30 Jan 2011, 5:29 pm
30 Jan 2011, 5:57 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Climate change has been happening for the last 4.5 billion years.
ruveyn
ruveyn
it has but it is all the household and industrial pollutants as well as the wildlife we go out and destroy which tips the balance of natural change.
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