The REAL cause of the totenham riots...

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ouinon
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08 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Tom_Kakes wrote:

It's not going to help at all. It's crazy, they are all on film and some are going to do hard time in jail for this. It's just a crap situation for everyone that could and should have been avoided.

Agree.

But it's a "symptom" of how alienated many people are, whether rich or poor, from the rest of the world/planet/other people, with little or no sense of wider community outside their own particular "gangs", a measure of how many people at both ends of the material spectrum lack all sense of connection, have in a sense little real imagination.

...

I think that for many it needs to be trained/taught/inculcated, the realisation/understanding of the effects of ones actions, whether close at hand or further away in time or space.
.

Last edited by ouinon on 08 Aug 2011, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 5:06 pm

ouinon wrote:

Tom_Kakes wrote:

It's not going to help at all. It's crazy, they are all on film and some are going to do hard time in jail for this. It's just a crap situation for everyone that could and should have been avoided.

Agree. It's just a "symptom" of how alienated many people are, whether rich or poor, from the rest of the world/planet/other people, with little or no sense of wider community outside their own particular "gangs", a measure of how many people at both ends of the material spectrum lack all sense of connection, have in a sense little real imagination.

Sadly I agree.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 5:14 pm

Its almost like some of that aggression came out in the thread.

:S

ouinon
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08 Aug 2011, 5:19 pm

ouinon wrote:

I think that for many it needs to be trained/taught/inculcated, the realisation/understanding of the effects of ones actions, whether close at hand or further away in time or space.

... Unless it is something which we are all born with and that gets "broken"?

But the fact that so many people react so angrily to the rioters in Tottenham, or perhaps somewhat hysterically to smokers in a bar/restaurant, and yet don't see that the actions of big corps are the same thing writ large, ( or that their own purchases, of factory-farmed pork for example, is aswell albeit on a much smaller-scale

) is evidence of more of the same "blindness" to connections.

Our society/culture, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to teach "connections" very well.

Tom_Kakes wrote:

It's almost like some of that aggression came out in the thread.

Yes!
.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 5:29 pm

ouinon wrote:

I think that for many it needs to be trained/taught/inculcated, the realisation/understanding of the effects of ones actions, whether close at hand or further away in time or space.

) is evidence of more of the same "blindness" to connections.

Our society/culture, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to teach "connections" very well.

Exactly and when that blindness is pointed out it almost always leads to anger. People always look at these things from there own social/political point of view. You need to see the bigger picture autistic or not.

ouinon
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08 Aug 2011, 5:30 pm

ouinon wrote:

Our society/culture, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to teach "connections" very well.

Maybe because "it", western society, or rather those people advantaged by things as they stand, don't want us to see ( the ) connections, because so many things, their power and wealth for instance, depend on our not doing so?

It's in their interest to make us blind to connections, ...

But if they blind us too much the result is riots, because the people looting and destroying don't even see any connection between their actions and damage ( real hurt/pain/harm ) to others ...

They have been "taught"/conditioned to not see such a connection.
.

memesplice
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08 Aug 2011, 5:49 pm

Many of us stand at a distance to see the whole interconnected thing. We din't choose this distance or remote stance, and I really do not feel responsible for what happens, but by being alive we are connected to the process.

Would we create a fairer society if we were the majority?

I have just been told something like this is happening in Leeds. This is word of mouth so it may not be factual.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 5:52 pm

ouinon wrote:

Our society/culture, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to teach "connections" very well.

It's true, they usually have no interest in politics. The crap corporation funded media they use is littered with crap messages. What chance do they have. This is the only way they can express themselves to society.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 6:03 pm

memesplice wrote:

Would we create a fairer society if we were the majority?

Good question... I think society would be socially firmer as in if you verbally abused someone it would be seen as socially worse but it would also be fair (and quieter Lmao).

But that's just speculation

memesplice
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08 Aug 2011, 6:18 pm

I do agree with you that too may susceptible people are subjected to highly materialistic mind-crap. I wonder how may of them will value the things they have stolen, after a few weeks. I wonder if they will realize that a peaceful, positive,safe neighborhood is more valuable than these things. The smell of smoke , and the destruction ,and the anger, the morningafter is a terrible thing for children to wake up to.

Tom_Kakes
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08 Aug 2011, 6:33 pm

memesplice wrote:

I wonder if they will realize that a peaceful, positive,safe neighborhood is more valuable than these things. The smell of smoke , and the destruction ,and the anger, the morningafter is a terrible thing for children to wake up to.

Agreed!

Marcia
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08 Aug 2011, 7:29 pm

These are people with no moral compass, no thought for the lives of others who are taking advantage of the fact that the police can't cope with the scale and spread of this.

It must be terrifying for anyone who lives in a flat above business premises, especially now they are turning to arson as well as looting.

The word criminal just doesn't cover what they are.

John_Browning
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08 Aug 2011, 7:46 pm

Tequila wrote:

codarac wrote:

Tottenham is one of the blackest areas of London. The guy the police shot was black (and according to most mainstream news reports, a drug dealer).

No, it isn't, you racist loon.

It's a natural consequence of scumbags acting like scumbags, and furthermore, acting like scumbags when the forces of law and order confront them.

I suspected he was involved in criminal activity and wasn't just carrying a gun for protection, otherwise it would have been unlikely he would have shot a cop during his arrest. He's a long way off from shoplifting or picking out wallet to scrape by, he's willing to really hurt or kill people to protect an illegal business. In other words he's a hardened criminal that got what he deserved and the rioters are just looking for a cheap excuse to pillage and burn, just like in Los Angeles in 1992. If the issue is about social services, then WTF is the British government doing admitting hundreds of thousands of people that they can't take care of and they can't look after themselves?

Why is it that they will show protesters, that are mostly black, or Arabs being defiant with the cops, but they won't show anybody in the act of rioting? Are they being politically correct? Am I safe to assume that, like usual, it's not white people burning down their own community?

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John_Browning
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08 Aug 2011, 7:52 pm

Tom_Kakes wrote:

memesplice wrote:

Agreed!

In the parts of Los Angeles hardest hit by the 1992 riots, they learned when business left the area and basic needs like grocery stores were now 6 miles away. There is now efforts to revitalize the area, but let's just say there aren't very many students of history in those communities so they are bound to forget their lesson someday.

psych
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08 Aug 2011, 8:05 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/08 ... 20934.html

some points i feel are relevant..

Quote:

...The most recent thing was the shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. But Brixton particularly has a history of quite extreme police oppression and many people have died in Brixton whilst in police custody...

...This is an execution that happened, the man they killed didn’t fire a shot. They executed a person. The media always plays the same role in these cases: to discredit the story of the police brutality... ....The only interest I have is how can police shoot someone in the street and not be held accountable? This is not the first time that this has happened. And when the community sees that how else can they respond when they see the police can kill people and get away with it.

...If you sit on Effra road [in Brixton] and you look at Curry’s which is this huge company making millions of pounds and then you look at the estate directly opposite that shot where they can no longer afford anything from that shop, if that shop’s wide open why wouldn’t you walk through that door?

...Maybe the phone hacking scandal made something that was already true clear to a more mainstream audience. People in Brixton, Tottenham, Peckham all of these areas have been suffering the violence of the police for decades. It’s very naive to look at these riots without the context. If you look at Tottenham you have a situation where that area is getting 75% cuts....

whilst theres a lot of organised gangs taking advantage of the situation, imo it takes a lot more to cause this amount of disorder, a gradual breakdown over a significant period of time. Most of us will probably not have the experience of a relative or close friend thats been given a kicking in the cells, or been repeatedly stopped and searched etc.

Last edited by psych on 08 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cdfox7
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08 Aug 2011, 8:13 pm

WTF I just got a text from a mate its happening here in my city

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-14453303

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