My thoughts on the English riots.

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Along with Caribbean (especially Jamaican) influence too.

There's a gaping error in this thread - Wales doesn't have a parliament, it only has a government. Wales can not internally make its own laws.

A question to the English posters: If the EU parliament said "What do we care for these people' [The English], would you trust them to rule over you?

The main reason riots haven't kicked off in Scotland or Wales isn't about the demographics of society or the political landscape.
It's simply that our yobs will do anything to try and show they're different from their English counterparts.Instead of rioting,they'll probably start helping old ladies across the road.

Wrong! Wales has an national assembly, its own government and some law making powers. Its got more law making powers via a referendum back in March.

Not quite. I don't want to completely turn the clock back. I want a system of direct democracy, where local affairs are dealt with locally - health, transport, and so on. Minimum standards would be set at Westminster, with day-to-day issues largely being dealt with at local level. So the police and the councils would have serious power and would be held locally. Local people generally know how best to run local services, with national government running national affairs. National governments would closely co-operate with one another has happens now, but outside an over-centralising EU framework.



I would actually call for an immediate referendum on all four parts of the UK.

The Northern Irish would never vote for independence - it's just isn't an option there. A few Ulster loyalists like David Kerr and elements of the UDA want independence, no-one else really does I don't think. A United Ireland isn't an option either with Northern Ireland's unionists being so opposed. The present situation (as understated by the yearly Northern Ireland Life & Times surveys) is for devolution within the UK. I don't like devolution personally but there you go.

The Scottish wouldn't vote for independence either. Salmond and co might get a decent whack but a vote for the SNP does not equal a vote for an independent Scotland. If Salmond and co got 35% of a pro-independence vote I'd be surprised.

Wales isn't going anywhere. They seem happy enough just getting along.

So who are you going to call?

The nine English regions are an EU-inspired abomination.



It has been the cradle of British democracy for centuries.



The English Democrats support Sinn Féin and are about ready to disband anyway. The only major English protest party is UKIP.



He's an "idiot" because a lot of English people like him and engage with his personality. UKIP are becoming more popular at the time - slower than we'd like, sure, but much of that is due to our electoral system.

Since you hate Farage so much, I've posted a picture of him below:



There, isn't that better?



The Finns, the Danes and the Dutch increasingly aren't keen on the EU either.

And you're misrepresenting the EU-sceptic position: we don't hate Europe. I love Europe; frequently I feel more at home socially in mainland Europe than I do in Britain or Ireland. The countries of Europe are not alien to me. Their cultures are as wonderful as they are diverse. The same cannot be said of the EU: a frightful, parasitic, oleaginous blight on the countries of Europe.

Let me get this right. 'National' governments as in Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and where? Or are we back your dismal idea of a UK Government and no other?



One which includes an entirely unelected chamber of 740+? Is that your idea of a democracy or good governance? It isn't mine. I can see why you vote UKIP.

Last edited by pratchettfan on 10 Aug 2011, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

National governments meaning the UK government liaising with France, Spain, the PRC, the United States et al. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a nation and a sovereign state. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are subdivisions of the whole.



Not a perfect solution but pre-2000 (or so) I would have preferred the Lords running the country over the detritus in the Commons.

OK. That's pretty much where you become a waste of time bothering with.

I'm not saying I want an unelected group of people running the country, merely that the Lords seemed to be far more level-headed and, well, normal than that crap we have in the Commons.

I can name probably about ten MPs in the Commons that I would piss on if they were on fire.

For those who don't know the arcane way this country does things or the significance of the date he mentions, pre-2000, that is when most of the heriditary peers in the House Of Lords (our second chamber) were told to go and only 92 remained. The 'reform' of the previous year, decreased the number of Lords from 1300 to around 650 - though the number has since risen.

We have replaced Lords, those who were led to believe they were 'born' to rule, no matter how in-bred or dull-witted they were, with appointed peers, mostly former politicians discarded by their constituents as no longer up to snuff or retiring MPs who never contributed much at all and have carried on contributing little. Worse are those who may be seen to have, one way or another, bought their peerages. They now get to play a major part in deciding UK legislation without having much regard to any idea of accountability.

This is what he happily calls democracy.

It worked and it was full of Tories which is why you don't like it I assume?

Whether they want to cross the road or not! Lol!

Yep, it's the rioting equivalent of supporting whoever England is playing.

I think these riots are a tragedy for this country and for all manner of reasons. Wouldn't it have been better to have said nothing? Or could you not help yourselves in the rush to make a silly little nationalist point or pour salt on the wounds?

You may not like what I say, but that doesn't make it any less true. Maybe you should think about why that might be.

The riots are a tragedy, for all concerned especially the families of those killed and injured and all those people whose businesses and homes have been destroyed.

Thats partly not truth, as South Wales Police made a statement via the BBC today about that
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

Yeah, a 16 and an 18 year old were arrested in Scotland for posting on Facebook trying to start something. They seem to have been reported pretty promptly.