The system will fall

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I hope something does happen in the year 2012......I'm sick of waiting for sh*t to hit the fan, so yeah not quite sure what I think would happen, but I have some ideas.

Yes and I agree with them that the system is broken........also they are protestors so I think it is a little ridiculous people expect them to have a flawless plan to fix it, they are not a political party they are a group of american citizens who are protesting because the systems broken and a lot of people are being screwed over by it.......so yeah their ideas are going to be a little bit inconsistant.

What makes you think the system can be fixed?

and you seem to be contradicting yourself.....you say we should fix the system, and before you were talking about how suicide is a good option if you don't function well in this society and can't shut up and play your role in the game.....now you're saying something should be done about the system? well which is it?

Fix what system? Banks, Brokers, Hedge Funds leveraged 80 to 1?

$16 Trillion did not fix that.

43 million collecting Food Stamps, $1 Billion a month.

20 Million unemployed, $200 Billion a year.

Support for all the people who need it, $1 Trillion over four years.

When the foundation crumbles, the house falls.

Wut?!

Please tell me you didn't just write that...

When you borrow $250,000 off the bank for a house you don't actual think the bank teller goes in the safe and gets $250,000 of somebody's savings out of it to give you?

That $250,000 is nothing more than a promise of future wealth that you promise to pay to the bank i.e. is imaginary until you pay it back.

Before you call for the collapse of the system, ask yourself a basic question:

Would I be better off in the absence of a system?

If you can honestly answer, "yes," to that question--if you can independently provide for all of your needs, then by all means, advocate the collapse of the system.

But if you rely on grocery stores for your food, the internet for information and entertainment, electricity or natural gas for cooking your food and heating your home, and retail stores for your clothing, then advocating the collapse of the system is nothing more than self-indulgent nihilism.

I completely agree with you.

Historically, almost all empires have lasted approximately 250 years. The US Just turned 235 in july. The signs of collapse are all around. Corruption is beyond rampant, it IS the system. DC is well into the final looting phases of collapse. Also as an empire collapses, it clamps down tighter on control, attempting to save itself. Tyranny is on the rise, and signs of of the police state are everywhere.

I suggest watching a documentary by Naomi Wolf, called "The End of America", outlining the 10 steps to a fascist state.

Many people are uncomfortable with negative talk like this. But it's the reality. This country is well past it's golden age and things will have to get much worse before it gets better. I look at it like I see a hardcore drug addict, they will need to hit bottom before they will get help. And this system is soooo broken that simply passing a new set of laws, or voting the right guy into office will not change a dang thing.

Yes, it's a glum outlook, but I choose to focus on the recovery that will ultimately come after the collapse.



Stocking up supplies for the inevitable might be a good idea.
But stocking up on friends and loved ones is a better idea.

I think some people are confusing "money" with "currency". Currency is that bit of paper you have in your pocket with "I promise" written on it. A big part of the problem is that it's turned out that a lot of the promises related to the more theoretical money have turned out to be lies, or at least not promises that can be kept.

I broadly agree with Sweetleaf and Pete. I just don't think it's limited to the US. I do think that we need an alternative before we start ripping up the old system.

Those of us wrapped up with the Occupation movement are working on alternatives. We're a long way from posting demands. On the other hand I, among others, have been writing, thinking, debating, blogging, and generally trying to work out where to go from here. My latest blog entry actually looked at how we might create more nurturing environments for those with "mental disorders" and why it's in everyone's best interest to do that.

You can read it, with links to previous entries, here: http://runakuna.wordpress.com/2011/11/1 ... e-society/

Oh, and I think Sweetleaf looks cute with that hairstyle. She'd probably look cute with a different hairstyle. She also wants to see an end to our unfit for purpose socio-economic system. It's a shame she's the other side of the Atlantic.

Sorry, I will stop flirting. Probably inappropriate.

It's irrelevent if I would be better of in the absence of a system..........but hey the system has not helped me much so I imagine without it I would be in just about the same place I am now, which is not too great but it's too late for me, its been too late for me for quite some time so its simply not about me its about a system that's screwing lots of people over and that there needs to be an end to it.

I am also tired of it.. I really am hoping too Sweetleaf that something happens.. I have my own beliefs of what will possibly happen.. And I wouldn't mind learning how to live off the land.. But at the moment it is illegal.. Witch I think is kinda stupid..

We don't need to start ripping up the old system. It's creaking and groaning, ready to collapse all by itself.
I'm more focused on staying clear of the falling debris.

All I know is we need something based on voluntary participation, not violent coercion.

The System is not the economy. people will not stop producing, consuming, electricty did not end when Enron folded. Worldcom did not crash the internet. Congress, and their owners could vanish tomorrow, the world would keep running.

The System being discussed is the Debt Bubble that has replaced the economy, and feeds off of it. Half the price of grain and oil is speculation. Grain will still be grown.

The System is to privitize the gains, socialize the losses. The Bailout went to banks, brokers, and protected the wealth of the top 1%. 99% were stuck with the future costs.

The ship will sink, you will all starve, are no where near the truth. We live in a land of plenty, some want it all.

The system is undemocratic, goes against the Constitution, and We The People have the right to reorder things as we see fit.

A Clawback of illgotten gains, of debt created from nothing returning to nothing, and for a new system based of The General Welfare of all.

A Government that inacts the Will Of The People.

The roads will not vanish, where there is demand there will be supply.

The unemployed and the young are getting a bad deal, the future is getting a bad deal. All of that can be fixed.

Only the current system of selling government to the highest bidder needs to change. Government is owned by the voters. The Nation is owned by The People. We can have our due share, and recover stolen goods.

Hi Pete

I agree with your second statement, and I half agree with the first.

I, and many others, have been trying to work out what a system based on voluntary participation might look like. We're working on it. It's about constructing a complex system that will work, not the one we have at the moment, which is not fit for purpose. I'm a high-functioning aspie. I love complex systems.

Unfortunately, the old system has people willing to defend it, from those who are doing rather well out of it, to those who are scared that a new system might be worse, to the paid hirelings like the thousands of government storm troopers evicting Zucotti Park as I write. That doesn't mean it's not going to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions, but it will take time, and the longer it takes the more damage they'll have done by the time we have to come along and fix it.

This means we need a workable alternative. We can't feed seven billion people off the land in the absence of agriculture and transport for the food after it's been grown, for example. We've grown dependent on it. This means a controlled scale-down and transformation, not a process of destruction and renewal, because the latter will cause too much damage to the supporting ecosystems, if nothing else.

Seetleaf, you're not in a film, and anarchy is bad. Chill out and enjoy the capitalism dude.

Sweetleaf's a girl.

Also the point is that noone's enjoying it right now, so agitation is the natural response.

Don't see how that's really relevant to what I said.



The natural response to having economic troubles isn't "bring the whole system down", that's just the type of hyperbolic rubbish that's only taken seriously by the sensible public in movies, and we're not in a movie.

When did I ever claim to be in a film?.........and I have quite a few reasons for why I disagree with the way things are, so I won't be chilling out and enjoying a system I disagree with any time soon.