Arizona in the dock

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Right again Bill otherwise known as Kraichgauer.

I have to think, you're not the only good person in your state. But thank you for your sympathy. My friend just isn't who he had once been.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Arizona has a cool old west history including the likes of the Earps, Doc Holiday, the Cowboy Gang, Johny Ringo and Curly Bill Brocious. Take heart - that's something to surely be proud of. My own state of Washington has a colorful old west past, too, but in its zeal to modernize, many people here have no memory of the outlaws and gunmen who had made my state interesting back in the day.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I think the laws in AZ aren't as bad as people try to dramatize them. I live in AZ, and I was born in Mexico. I simply think that people must be responsible for their own actions. My parents, my brother and me immigrated here legally. People have a choice, either come here legally or illegally. If you choose to be illegal, then you'll simply have to deal with the consequences.

Then that boycott they're doing, that's just dumb. How are you going to boycott the state if you live there? Don't you pay taxes every day when you buy things, and in your paycheck?

And those so called activists! I mean, there's one guy saying that the illegal ones here are the citizens because they are descended from the English, and we are descended from the natives so this is really our land. We are descended from Europeans, too. We speak their language, which is Spanish, we practice their religion, Roman Catholicism, well a lot of us, anyway, and there are many European influences in our culture. If there were absolutely no European in us, then we wouldn't be Mexicans anymore, we'd be Native Americans. Those activist I'll bet don't even know how to speak a single native dialect! And all that stupidity about comparing Arpaio and Hitler, those people have never read about what it was like to live in fear like people in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia! Besides, those activists have socialist views, and you know how that turns out. They don't really want what's best, but rather their own turn as top dog as they say.

People are just ret*d and love to complain, I guess.

I don't like Arizona because I despise the disgusting dry weather, but I wish people would see things logically. Then perhaps we can turn our attention to more important things like better public transportation to help reduce pollution, and this place has great potential to produce solar energy. Solana was supposed to be opened last year, and now it's postponed until next year. The government should be advising these types of things, not trying to comply with whining people. I mean, look at Denmark! The cities of Copenhagen and Stockholm! Those could serve as models! Instead people are arguing with crybabies. Why, these place provides power for many cities from the nuclear power plant, Palo Verde. Now, just imagine that instead of being nuclear, it were solar. How great a difference that would make!

^ nicely put. and, hi from az.
Many people are ignorant of history I'm afraid. Even relatively recent & shared history as you refer to:

I wish people could focus on and celebrate that which is shared and might connect one another instead of looking for reasons to fight, hurt or demean one another. But I hold to a very different state of mind than the racist people.
Kraichgauer, yes, I love the Old West stories and legends very much so. I think I was probably one of them if there is such a thing as reincarnation.

Do you agree or disagree that a sovereign entity has a right to set spatial boundaries around its territory.

Boundaries are essential to the functioning of any complex organism: That is why even at the cellular level we have membranes and cell walls. A State or other sovereign entity cannot exist without some kind of separation between what is inside and what is outside.

Second: It is not a human right for any old person to come into the United States. The United States is sovereign and only its laws can determine who shall be allowed inside. Period. End of Issue. The world has no right to come here. Only by permission or invitation can someone be here who is not already here.

Everyone has the right to pursue happiness. No one has the right to achieve happiness by breaking into my house and eating from my larder.

ruveyn

Valid points and well stated, ruveyn.
There is a thing called inflammation, in speaking of bodies. I happen to believe that the bodies of the world's countries are suffering from over population as the basis of many serious problems.
Who can and who cannot live here, there, or wherever is indeed governed by laws.
These laws were made to protect the rights and freedoms of citizens.
The manner in which these laws are enforced 'should' be respectful of the rights and freedoms of citizens, which imho means that if they begin to be enforced in such a way as to, as Billybones put it,

, then that would be fundamentally and morally wrong.
I mean no dis-respect of anyone's belief system.

Everyone has right to set boundaries. As you say it's essential to the functioning of a complex organism. Besides, we are no one to complain. If you're coming from Central or South America, you better hope that you get caught in the US and not in Mexico. The immigration laws in Mexico are very harsh. They tolerate NO illegals, and Mexican citizenship is one of the most difficult to obtain. And overpopulation really is an issue.

They speak of seperating families because parents are deported. Yet I have never heard them speak of people leaving their children in their home countries when they come here. Isn't that seperating families? They complain because some people here don't speak Spanish. The language here is English. It's like if I go to Russia. Obviously I'm going to have to learn at least some Russian because that's what the people there speak. Or is the entire country going to have to learn another language just because I decided to visit or move there?

They also speak against the sheriff, governor, and the police, saying that they oppress the people, and they should be thrown out of office. Very well. But then who is going to govern and keep order? The people? These activists? That's why I say they are only waiting for their own turn as top dog.

I also find it very upsetting when they speak out so harshly against our culture, because we are Europeans. True, there's Native American in us, but we are also descended from Spaniards, Moors, Italians, why even Slavs. If they don't believe this, why do they do things like celebrate Christmas? If I'm correct, the Native Americans did not celebrate Christmas. They had their own gods, their own religions. Christianity was brought by the Europeans.

And the're so hypocritical. There's this one guy, Salvador Reza, who has very socialist views, and insists strongly that this is our land, and that the Americans have invaded and oppressed the people. He also claims that our ancestors lived in harmony with the environment. What does that man care or has done for our planet?! Why has he never mentioned all the trash the illegals crossing leave in the desert? Why does he not mention that this city, Phoenix, is one of the most polluted? The air here is like literally a smog soup! They say they are doing this because they want a better world for the next generation. What good would all this do if Earth is so polluted? What good is no discrimination or oppression in a world so destroyed by pollution?

As a LEGAL immigrant, and as someone who has read a lot of history and culture, and an environmentalist I feel very strongly about these issues.

I'm glad to hear what you have to say about all this. I've heard of that guy who says the land actually belongs to his people, not the U.S. - that's a really polarizing thing to say. Besides, the earth should be cared for especially if argued over, as you say; why doesn't someone stop the trash and the pollution in and around Phoenix.
I think anything we can do to promote understanding and harmony is important and worthwhile.

He has this show on a Spanish radio station. He runs these groups called Comites de Defensa del Barrio(Comittees for the Defense of the People)or CDBs, which always put me in mind of the Soviets. When people tell him that he should go back to his country, he answers that they should go back to their continent. I've actually thought of doing a geneological search on him, and see if he's a Native American as he claims, which I'm convinced he's not(so very few of us are), and presenting this to him and his followers. His name is Spanish, obviously, and his surname is Moorish(which a lot of Spanish surnames are for obvious reasons as you'll see if you read Spanish history). Although it seems his Comites are losing their hold, thank goodness. This last Monday, he sounded so desperate and the protest yesterday, he sounded almost about to cry. Hopefully he'll cease to stir up trouble. It's good to see people are coming to their senses and starting to see his socialist views.

Only last night he was in front of the US Airways because a popular group called Mana was giving a concert. I wasn't there, but I saw some videos of it this morning. He was holding a microphone almost up to people's faces telling them that they are paying for their own persecution, and that they will be deported as soon as they get out of there, and have they no dignity. The ones with no dignity were him and his protestors holding up signs. Fortunately, eager fans paid no attention to them and simply walked passed them and on to the concert, so there was no chaos or anything. But I mean, he was saying that Mana were traitors, and that if they wanted to come to AZ, then they shouldn't charge people to see them. We'll have to see what he was to say on his show on Monday, especially he's forgotten to mention that the concert has been sold out for weeks. My dad went to see the protestors yesterday, and he says tons of people went to the concert and that Reja was almost crying, he was so upset at the success of the concert. I almost wish I'd have bought a ticket and gone to see them myself. If it wasn't for the fact that I can't tolerate loud noises and staying up so late, especially in such a noisy and crowded environment, I'd have gone.

I think Earth belongs to no one, but to us all if that makes any sense. Taking care of our planet and those we share it with is everyone's responsibility. And if these people say that they live in harmony with the Earth, then they should do something to show it. The things they are doing is simply causing much more harm, and there's so much people can do. For one, the government needs money to help fund projects such as Solana, and other solar generating stations which they want to build in the future, but haven't been able to do so. Although there's so much to do, I think in Phoenix the first thing is energy. First, because AZ has so much potential, with this arid climate, and second because of how much people use. It's impossible to live without ac here. The government should be addressing issues such as these instead of tolerating crybabies. After all, don't Arizonans deserve to live in a clean state and in clean cities? Well, there's no time to start like the present, and the people and government working together towards a better future instead of fighting each other because a few troublemakers want to stir up people with their lies.

I think you mean this guy, Salvador Reza. http://open.salon.com/blog/sandangel/20 ... und_strike There they are in front of the US Airways in one of their failed protests. The concert was a huge success, and their protest a failure. It seems he forgot the fact that the concert has been sold out for weeks!

yes, that's the guy. well it's always good that music concerts sell out - good all around. music's one of the things that brings us together. heck, even tho' there were protesters, in fact the concert brought them there and provided a crowded place for them to get exposure, etc. I hope the protests don't get violent though, I am worried about that but probably won't happen since the police in Phx seem to be a strong presence at things like protests and other public events. Likely to be a lot of drama, etc. leading up to the election. I will not be visiting phx for anything but that's 'cuz I avoid going there between May and October due to the extreme heat.

That's one of the reasons this boycott is doing more harm to the people who they are trying to benefit. Think how many people are going to lose jobs because no one comes to the hotels, give no concerts, etc. All that means not just more money, but more jobs, too. My dad says that with them boycotting Budweiser and Corona what they're probably planning to do is make their own beer and give it away, as they can't charge for it. Because you're just not going to stop people from drinking. People like to drink.

I don't think they'll dare get violent, although they do have a tendency to look for trouble. The week after the governor signed that bill, they spent an entire week trying to call attention to themselves so the sheriff would come. I can't wait to hear what he says this afternoon on his show. I'm hoping for once he'll say the truth, and admit that it was a failure. It's a shame I didn't go to the concert. I could've been on that video!

I don't blame you. I hate the heat here. Not to mention the cfc hum from the ac units around the neighborhood when I go outside. Hmm, come to think of it, they haven't asked people to start boycotting SRP, gas, utilities and all that yet. Probably because it's too inconvenient for them.

Yes, we have the absolute responsibility to guard our borders, especially against criminal elements, but racism should never be part of it, as it seems to be with Sheriff Arpaio. Come to think of it, Arpaio seems to have forgotten that at one time, it was his Italian forebears who were seen as the undesirable element who were often coming to America illegally. I wonder if he recalls that that ugly slur of "wop" meant "without papers." I wonder how many of the sheriff's people came to this country illegally.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Arpaio simply seeks to do his job. I think that's what some people have against him. That he actually does do his job. And I think that is disrespectful to compare him to Hitler. It is disrespectful to the people who lived and especially those who died in the concentration camps during the Holocaust. These people obviously do not know anything about the Holocaust if they compare Arpaio's jails to concentration camps.

These activists actually have more in common with Hitler and even Stalin than Arpaio does. If Arpaio is still sheriff it is because people want him there. After all, isn't he elected? On the other hand, these people who say they are doing everything for the people, well, that's just what the Nazis and Bolsheviks said. The Nazi was the Worker's Party, and the Soviet Union was run by the people. Actually these comittees they have here, remind me of the Soviets. What did they ever do for the people? And who exactly is 'the people'? How do you know what is really best for the people? So many crimes in history have been committed because it is what's best for the people, for the greater good. It all sounds very nice, the people in charge and all that, but that does not work out in reality. Like I said, they say that they want to get rid of the governor, the police, the sheriff, and that it should be the people making the decisions. Then who's going to govern and keep order?

I think the way to really solve it would be for anyone here illegally to go home, and try to solve the problems there, or if they want to come here, come legally as my parents, my brother and I did. It's not fair to us legal immigrants to give the illegals the easy way out, simply granting them residency or citizenship. We waited a long time to get our citizenship.

Justice has to be served - symbolized by the scales for good reason. In time we shall see what happens. Arpaio is 79 years old and there comes a time even with guys like him where aging takes its toll.
this is in the salon.com website, it was written by J. Dougherty a long time journalist in Phoenix: