Gary McKinnon saved from extradition to the US!

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bnky
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17 Oct 2012, 8:07 am

I can't help but wonder how quickly the US government would extradite one of their citizens to a government of a country to which the citizen had never travelled. Call me cynical if I suggest it wouldn't happen.
Also, it wouldn't have been allowed to be dragged out for this long! - Shame on you UK government!!



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17 Oct 2012, 3:00 pm

While I don't think being diagnosed is an excuse for unethical hacking, I'm glad he did not get extradited to the U.S. He carried out the crime in the UK, therefore he should be tried in the UK. Just seems like the U.S wanted to make an example of him and give him a hefty sentence to send a warning to other potential hackers.



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17 Oct 2012, 3:01 pm

Colinn wrote:
... Just seems like the U.S wanted to make an example of him and give him a hefty sentence to send a warning to other potential hackers.

And your point is ... ?


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17 Oct 2012, 3:06 pm

My point is he isn't an American citizen who never committed the crime there, so why should he be tried there? They tried to abuse their power and were unsuccessful. Also, he could have gotten up to 70 years if tried in the states. For all that he done the punishment really wouldn't have fit the crime would it?



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17 Oct 2012, 3:35 pm

Colinn wrote:
My point is he isn't an American citizen who never committed the crime there, so why should he be tried there? They tried to abuse their power and were unsuccessful. Also, he could have gotten up to 70 years if tried in the states. For all that he done the punishment really wouldn't have fit the crime would it?


You don't seem to get the significance of the phrase "up to."

You also take an overly generous definition of "never committed a crime there." Is is actually not uncommon for extraditions to occur where the criminal inflicted damage in one country acting from another, that's why:
"the Crown Prosecution Service has said US prosecutors have jurisdiction"
http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/sec ... secretary/



Inuyasha
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17 Oct 2012, 7:29 pm

I don't think being on the spectrum is a legitimate defense, we can tell the difference between right and wrong.

That said, I think the US Government needs to find out how the guy got into the computer network like he did and plug the hole, for all we know he stumbled onto a breach caused by China and just piggybacked on the Chinese hacking...

If he did cause the breach, we need to plug the hole so the Chinese, Iranians, etc. aren't able to exploit it.

I will also point out a key thing that people tend to miss, the US Government has sometimes hired hackers instead of locking them in prison. He'd certainly do a better job than the government officials that look at porn all day.



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17 Oct 2012, 9:54 pm

Homeland Security must watch all the porn, for what if one seventeen year old nipple got out? The fall of Western Civilization would be next.

Gary had a username and password, and that on a secure government intranet. That is not an outside hack. To get bank pin numbers a web cam is used to watch the ATM and you have to have the credit card number, name, like where you used it at the gas station across the street.

With access to the computer, micro USB can trace keystrokes, without going through AntiVirus programs.

It all points to someone on the inside, with hidden Webcam, USB, that would record the keystrokes. Passwords are changed on regular basis, which many do write down on a post it, which makes their desk easy to crack.

Once in, there is a search history, which will take you to where ever the person goes, giving a map of their job, and access to other networks.

All the evidence points to an inside job, a mole, who might be facing life as life. We are harder on traitors than spys.

Everyone who had access to the area will be watched, spied upon, for the rest of their life. The same goes for friends and relatives.

Iran took down a CIA spy ring, because twelve people who had nothing in common, no contact, no friends in common, and were not related, all went to the same web site. No one else did.

The site used proxy servers, links, making it impossible to trace. It could be pinged, and the echo came back from the source.

In another case porn was used, with hidden messages in the background. With all the porn on the web some people were returning to one short time after time.

It is all about watching for patterns, links, and Gary used his girlfriends mother's computer, which would not have links to follow. He still got caught. Watching her, he was part of her network.

Besides what else he might have done, a very expensive search was used to find him. Since he admits his behavior, perhaps a Civil Suit for damages.

It is never over.



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18 Oct 2012, 2:52 am

Inventor wrote:
Homeland Security must watch all the porn, for what if one seventeen year old nipple got out? The fall of Western Civilization would be next.

Gary had a username and password, and that on a secure government intranet. That is not an outside hack. To get bank pin numbers a web cam is used to watch the ATM and you have to have the credit card number, name, like where you used it at the gas station across the street.

With access to the computer, micro USB can trace keystrokes, without going through AntiVirus programs.

It all points to someone on the inside, with hidden Webcam, USB, that would record the keystrokes. Passwords are changed on regular basis, which many do write down on a post it, which makes their desk easy to crack.

Once in, there is a search history, which will take you to where ever the person goes, giving a map of their job, and access to other networks.

All the evidence points to an inside job, a mole, who might be facing life as life. We are harder on traitors than spys.

Everyone who had access to the area will be watched, spied upon, for the rest of their life. The same goes for friends and relatives.

Iran took down a CIA spy ring, because twelve people who had nothing in common, no contact, no friends in common, and were not related, all went to the same web site. No one else did.

The site used proxy servers, links, making it impossible to trace. It could be pinged, and the echo came back from the source.

In another case porn was used, with hidden messages in the background. With all the porn on the web some people were returning to one short time after time.

It is all about watching for patterns, links, and Gary used his girlfriends mother's computer, which would not have links to follow. He still got caught. Watching her, he was part of her network.

Besides what else he might have done, a very expensive search was used to find him. Since he admits his behavior, perhaps a Civil Suit for damages.

It is never over.


WOW Land of the Brave, Home of the Free ?.



ALADDIN_1978
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19 Oct 2012, 8:31 am

Free Talha Ahsan

The UK Independent, Gary McKinnon versus Talha Ahsan

Gary McKinnon will not be extradited, but aspergers sufferer, Talha Ahsan was extradited with his friend Babar Ahmad, the radical cleric Abu Hamza, Khalid Al Fawaz, Abdel Abdul Bary.

Talha is in solitary confinement, unable to contact his family. The media generally mixed his case with Abu Hamza.



bnky
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19 Oct 2012, 10:16 am

Well, at least that puts paid to any idea anyone may've had that asperger's is a "get out of jail free" card.



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19 Oct 2012, 10:44 am

bnky wrote:
Well, at least that puts paid to any idea anyone may've had that asperger's is a "get out of jail free" card.


And incidentally the idea that the British ruling was made for the reasons that were given...



bnky
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19 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm

Pyrite wrote:
bnky wrote:
Well, at least that puts paid to any idea anyone may've had that asperger's is a "get out of jail free" card.


And incidentally the idea that the British ruling was made for the reasons that were given...


I recon there was a trade: "Give us the Moslem terrorists and we`ll let you put the UFO guy on trial for us."



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22 Oct 2012, 11:34 am

Colinn wrote:
My point is he isn't an American citizen who never committed the crime there, so why should he be tried there? They tried to abuse their power and were unsuccessful. Also, he could have gotten up to 70 years if tried in the states. For all that he done the punishment really wouldn't have fit the crime would it?


I do not think that you can legitimately claim that he never committed a crime in the United States.

Let's assume for a moment that he did what it is claimed that he did--specifically gaining access to computer networks to which he was not authorized. Now if those computer systems had been a bank's, and he had used his access to transfer money into his own accounts, then it is abundantly clear that he would have committed theft, and the injured party would be the bank at the other end of his electronic activities.

When Libyan agents planted explosives on PA103, they have never set foot in Scotland. The explosives were not loaded on the plane in Scotland. The aircraft didn't even take off from Scotland. But they were tried under Scottish Law, because that's the place where the explosives destroyed the aircraft.

The extraterritorial application of law is complex--and it is made all the more complex because of the degree to which we establish legal relationships to people in dozens of jurisdictions via electronic means of communication. I can be on a computer in the United States, order goods from amazon.co.uk and charge them to my Canadian credit card. There are at least six jurisdictions that could potentially regulate that transaction.

It is not enough to have never set foot in a place to support the claim that one has no legal presence in a place, or that one has never committed an offence in that place.


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22 Oct 2012, 2:22 pm

What I get out of this is anyone who is prone to committing suicide after extradition won't be extradited after all, I sure hope so.


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23 Oct 2012, 12:07 am

Only if you are White, British, and Guilty.

We have parts of what happened, Gerald Ford did Pardon Nixon, without trial. Mostly it took being convicted to be pardoned.

It also took being in the jursdiction where the crime was commited.

So Gary is still subject to arrest, it is just the locals will not help.

I think we had the same problem in Somalia, and Yemen.

All of the British Courts have ruled in favor of the US, as did the European Court, so what we have is the word of some local warlord, issued on political grounds.

It would be bad for British Spies to be tried in open Court, where the evidence of their actions can be presented. It would open the way for warrents to be issued for their codefendants.

Not having the one who admits his guilt, leaves a gap in being able to convict the others.

We shall see.



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26 Oct 2012, 7:21 pm

To my mind, Britain shouldn't have to extradite anyone to America in the first place... because if something happens here, then it happens here.

The whole hacking thing, well obviously it did cause problems and yes it did cause disruptions, but on the grand scale it just feels like it's a bad day at work for the people on the receiving end of that whilst Gary McKinnon has suffered years of psychological trauma from this; the people in harder circumstances always seem to suffer more.

I just want this whole thing to have been put to bed long ago by which I mean no punishment for Gary McKinnon and for everyone to just get on with their lives from this point.

I'm very glad Gary McKinnon was not extradited.


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