This is what the United States has to cope with

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Kraichgauer
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08 Apr 2013, 10:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, one Florida Republican official after the last election conceded that this was a purposeful attempt to discourage Democrats from voting.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The witness of a single person is not conclusive. It won't stand up in court.

Was he a direct witness in such a conspiracy or was he merely supposing that was the reason for the treatment of black voters in Southern Florida. If the latter, then he expressed an opinion or hearsay and not direct witness. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusion thus exposing your own prejudices against Republicans.

ruveyn


He is an admitted participant. Believe the man or not, but the fact remains, polling places were reduced in areas of Florida expected to go for Obama. The plot to disenfranchise voters thankfully failed, as those voters called the bluff of the powers that be, and stayed put till they had voted.
Incidentally, it was just a big joke on Fox, as "Mr. Portent to Republican victory," Dick Morris had sarcastically noted those voters' "dinner would get cold" for waiting so long to cast a ballot.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



visagrunt
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09 Apr 2013, 11:10 am

ruveyn wrote:
The witness of a single person is not conclusive. It won't stand up in court.

Was he a direct witness in such a conspiracy or was he merely supposing that was the reason for the treatment of black voters in Southern Florida. If the latter, then he expressed an opinion or hearsay and not direct witness. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusion thus exposing your own prejudices against Republicans.

ruveyn


You have a very peculiar view of the law of evidence. The basic principle of the law of evidence is that the sworn statement of a single person is--if neither contradicted nor impeached--conclusive evidence of the subject matter of that statement.

While you are quite correct that his statement might be subject to exclusion on the basis of hearsay, you have provided no foundation to demonstrate a reasonable grounds on which to believe that.

In a Common Law court, therefore, on the balance of probabilities his statement would be direct evidence, and would stand as proof of the substance of his statement. But, of course, parties adverse in interest would be entitled to cross examine him and to present evidence that tended to contradict him, neither of which opportunities are open to us.

Nonetheless, your initial statement is quite incorrect.


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09 Apr 2013, 1:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, one Florida Republican official after the last election conceded that this was a purposeful attempt to discourage Democrats from voting.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The witness of a single person is not conclusive. It won't stand up in court.

Was he a direct witness in such a conspiracy or was he merely supposing that was the reason for the treatment of black voters in Southern Florida. If the latter, then he expressed an opinion or hearsay and not direct witness. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusion thus exposing your own prejudices against Republicans.

ruveyn


He is an admitted participant. Believe the man or not, but the fact remains, polling places were reduced in areas of Florida expected to go for Obama. The plot to disenfranchise voters thankfully failed, as those voters called the bluff of the powers that be, and stayed put till they had voted.
Incidentally, it was just a big joke on Fox, as "Mr. Portent to Republican victory," Dick Morris had sarcastically noted those voters' "dinner would get cold" for waiting so long to cast a ballot.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sigh............
Before it was voter ID laws that were being used solely to marginalize the downtrodden :roll: and now we have closed or moved polls as an excuse.
Excuse for what?
Florida is still a blue state and Obama still won..........again.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Apr 2013, 2:40 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, one Florida Republican official after the last election conceded that this was a purposeful attempt to discourage Democrats from voting.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The witness of a single person is not conclusive. It won't stand up in court.

Was he a direct witness in such a conspiracy or was he merely supposing that was the reason for the treatment of black voters in Southern Florida. If the latter, then he expressed an opinion or hearsay and not direct witness. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusion thus exposing your own prejudices against Republicans.

ruveyn


He is an admitted participant. Believe the man or not, but the fact remains, polling places were reduced in areas of Florida expected to go for Obama. The plot to disenfranchise voters thankfully failed, as those voters called the bluff of the powers that be, and stayed put till they had voted.
Incidentally, it was just a big joke on Fox, as "Mr. Portent to Republican victory," Dick Morris had sarcastically noted those voters' "dinner would get cold" for waiting so long to cast a ballot.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sigh............
Before it was voter ID laws that were being used solely to marginalize the downtrodden :roll: and now we have closed or moved polls as an excuse.
Excuse for what?
Florida is still a blue state and Obama still won..........again.


Florida happens to have a Republican governor who has a rather despicable and dishonest past in regard to his former business dealings, and a very aggressive Republican party apparatus determined to turn Florida red. Despite their efforts, Florida remains blue.
And as a matter of fact, the number of polling places had been reduced in Democratic precincts, as had early voting days - this is verifiable.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Apr 2013, 3:11 pm

Yes, if we could get Florida (29 electoral votes) and Virginia (13 electoral votes) back in the fold by 2016 and add that to Texas's 38 votes that would certainly help.
We'll never get NY and Ca but we might not need them.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Apr 2013, 3:27 pm

The Republican party should then try doing that by reaching the hearts and minds of poor, young, and minority voters, rather than trying to make it tougher for them to vote. It was because of such shenanigans that people felt their voting rights were in danger, and so were willing to wait literally hours in line to cast a ballot to keep that right alive.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Apr 2013, 3:54 pm

Umm........ commuting to polls and long lines are pretty much the norm, especially in the evenings when most people are getting off work.
Been there done that but I don't fee "marginalized".
Luckily my present voting precinct is within walking distance of my house (wasn't always) but there is still a long and sssllllooowww line to stand in.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Apr 2013, 5:19 pm

You stood in line up to six hours? And did you have most of your polling stations closed? And even have the rival party send out notices to you for voting dates that were wrong?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Apr 2013, 8:49 pm

NY Times
Several recent polls and studies suggest that long waiting times in some places depressed turnout in 2012 and that lines were longest in cities, where Democrats outnumber Republicans. In a New York Times/CBS News poll taken shortly after Election Day, 18 percent of Democrats said they waited at least a half-hour to vote, compared with 11 percent of independents and 9 percent of Republicans.

Washington Post
For the majority of voters, lines were not a huge problem. “Two-thirds of voters in 2012 waited less than 10 minutes to vote, and that only 3% of voters waited longer than an hour,” he writes in a new study of the election. The national average wait time actually fell between 2008 and 2012 from 17 to 13 minutes, he finds.
But when it was bad, it was very, very bad. For those who waited longer than an hour, the average reported wait time was 110 minutes. Where was it bad? In Florida, Washington, D.C., Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina, wait times exceeded 20 minutes, with Florida voters enduring the worst lines.


Huffington Post
The study points out that the findings don't suggest discrimination on an individual basis, but rather a failure by precincts with high levels of minority voters, typically in urban areas, to appropriately address the issue of long lines. For example, the difference in wait times between black and white voters in the same zip code was less than a minute on average.


Above are three liberal sources on this and excerpts of their ramblings and I don't see anything about 6 hour waits. 110 minutes at the most and while that's too long it's no 6 hours, either.
If anything it was a failure on the part of the precincts to be prepared and not a conspiracy to suppress voters.

What's next, longer lines at the grocery stores in the poorer districts a plot to starve them?

Well, that's all I'm going to put into this and I've already dignified it more than it deserves to be.
Find someone else to kick this around with.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Apr 2013, 9:09 pm

I was quoting CNN and MSNBC.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Apr 2013, 12:54 am

When more than half of people think that JFK was killed by the Government, they might just be right.

As for the moon landing, that happened when America developed the Nutron Bomb, which became lost, and was never brought up again. We did all sorts of things to misdirect the USSR into spending money in wrong directions.

They were first in space, Sputnik, manned flight, and would never settle for being second to the moon. It was Propaganda, cold war bluffs, and they also forgot where they landed, which modern telescopes could see.

View the film, the sky is black with no stars, no shot of earth in the background, and walking on the moon would be like walking in flour, but their steps produce no dust. Second dust lacking, is hanging in the low gravity void. At the reduced gravity, with no wind to move it, the landing would have blanketed the area in dust, that would have taken months to settle.

Sunlight is much stronger on the Moon, dust particles would light up. There is nothing.

They brought a golf club and balls to the Moon?

Sending them would have cost a fortune, cut the payload for things like Oxygen, putting the mission at risk, and cutting back on Science.

For less weight they could have brought a sheet of Mylar, and set up a reflective mirror that could be seen from Earth.

On the Moon I would weigh about twenty pounds. With a space suit, thirty, I could jump up over ten foot, and float slowly down.

A more basic gravity experiment, drop something, and watch it fall slowly.

No basic Physics was done, no evidence viewable from Earth, no dust,which all points to it being shot in Texas.

As for Reptillion Shapeshifters, watch a session of Congress, they are not human, and not good at faking it, even wearing makeup.

All Government and Religion survives on lies. Barry ran on, Change you can believe in, not killing Americans with drones, without at least a fact finding in Court.

We killed a million in Iraq, and never found those mobile Bioweapons trucks. The only bio weapons that showed up was weaponized Anthrax, which we swore we did not have, made at the Pennington seed company labs in Baton Rouge. Genetically Modified Food is a threat, as less people leads to more control.

MK Ultra did some bio weapons experiments on American cities.

Iran Contra was funded by bring in Coke, making Crack, and spreading it around, a two for, self funding the CIA, and setting back the Black Civil Right movement. Three if you count the rise of Prison Industries since then.

History and Reality are now called the insane views of nut cases, by out of country professional opinion makers.

Hear me America! We must do something about Frog Town, and soon!



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12 Apr 2013, 3:48 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
You stood in line up to six hours? And did you have most of your polling stations closed? And even have the rival party send out notices to you for voting dates that were wrong?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Six hours?

Where I live, I have yet to have to stand in line to vote.

Of course, we only have about 30 to 35 voters in our precinct. Sometimes they have donuts for all voters. They always have coffee for everyone who wants it.

One year back in the 60s, all but one voter in the precinct had voted by about 1 or 2 pm. The one voter who hadn't voted was several hundred miles away at the time and was going to be away for several more days. The election workers knew it, but by the rules, they had to keep the polls open until the official closing until everyone in the precinct voted or until the closing time for the polls, whichever came first.



Kraichgauer
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12 Apr 2013, 11:42 am

I'm hardly talking about every voting station in the country - just in those states where certain groups were targeted with voter suppression.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Apr 2013, 12:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm hardly talking about every voting station in the country - just in those states where certain groups were targeted with voter suppression.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You are talking about the violation of Federal Law. Where are the grand jury proceedings. Where are the indictments. Where are the trials. Where are the convictions.

What you have implied are unsupported allegations. Now how about some -proof-?

ruveyn



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12 Apr 2013, 12:25 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm hardly talking about every voting station in the country - just in those states where certain groups were targeted with voter suppression.


There could be legitimate reasons as well. Perhaps a lack of suitable polling places in some neighborhoods. Or a lack of available election judges and workers in the precinct. Or a much bigger than expected turnout.

From http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/early-florida-voters-wait-long-hours-line-vote/story?id=17630774#.UWhDTaGjU24:
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With one day left for early voters in Florida, long lines that extend for blocks in some parts of Miami are affecting people's ability to vote. Several voters that Univision spoke to in and around Miami said they waited from three to six hours in line. Some, like Ms Arteaga, decided to leave because they had to get to work.

One reason for the delay is the ballot, which is more than six pages long. Voters are being asked not only to elect a new president but also to analyze 11 state amendments as well as several county questions. Some of the issues voters are being asked to weigh-in are: funding for abortions and religious freedom, as well as property tax issues affecting veterans and their spouses. This is the longest ballot in Miami-Dade history.

Despite requests from Democrats and Republicans to extend early voting one more day to Sunday, Governor Rick Scott stated he will not extend past Saturday.


So in this case, it was early voting where there are fewer places to vote for everyone. In my precinct, if you want to vote early, you have to drive either 20 miles to the nearest town or 35 miles to the courthouse to vote. On election day, there are far more polling places available, more voting booths, and more election workers to handle the crowds.

How many of these six hours to vote lines on the election day itself? All I can find were for early voting.



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12 Apr 2013, 12:29 pm

By the way, years ago in some states, the voting procedure as I understand it was to go to the county seat and get in line. When it was your turn to vote, the county sheriff would ask about each election in turn and give you the choices. You would tell him your choice and he would write it down.

I don't know if that was for everyone or just for those who could not read. There was an article on this in a Smithsonian Magazine back in the early to mid 1970s so I don't remember all the details by any means.