4 year old Autistic boy murdered by ignorant parents

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cyberdad
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02 Aug 2013, 8:57 pm

mikassyna wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
mikassyna wrote:
I didn't read that anything that confirmed if the boy was autistic or not. It merely said that the parents used that as an excuse for his behavior, and I don't think I would trust people like that. I did read somewhere that severe trauma in children can cause them to seem autistic.


Extract from the article

"On February 10 - three weeks before Daniel’s death - he was seen by Chakraborthy (specialist consultant) after a referral made by the school nurse.
Chakraborthy was told that Daniel, who did not speak to any adult during the appointment, had an insatiable appetite and was aggressive towards anyone who denied him food.
In his evidence to the murder trial, Chakraborthy said he had no reason to suspect Luczak was lying and had considered a hypermetabolic disorder, as well as an autistic spectrum disorder, as the cause of the boy’s problems."


I misread this part of the article. However, I still maintain that if the specialist was diagnosing heavily on the account of the abusers' narrative ("he had no reason to suspect Luczak was lying") versus the victim's account ("Daniel, who did not speak to any adult during the appointment"), and this could have skewed the diagnostic process. In cases where no abuse is suspected (in severe non-verbal autism cases) I think this is fine to diagnose autism, but in the case of extreme abuse I think it is sketchy to rely heavily on the "blame the victim" mentality of the abusers.

According to the account he saw Daniel three weeks before he died. The inability of Daniel to control his executive function and inability/incapacity? to communicate probably gave the specialist reason to suspect autism. The article also attests that Daniel was quite intelligent according to his school teacher so if he had autism it must been mild or high functioning "type".



Dox47
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03 Aug 2013, 12:52 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Funny Games is the one that drives the point home most strongly (I would go for the original version) and if you're interested in Socio-Politics you might appreciate The White Ribbon, an interesting parable for Germany's moral (and not only) disintegration which lead to the war. I suspect you might also like the lack of emotional manipulation in his work.


Ahh, Funny games I am familiar with. That was one of those movies that was sorta ruined for me because of who I am, to wit my version would have been much shorter: *bang* *bang* *thud* *thud*, "honey, are we out of extra large Hefty bags?". Of course, I feel this way about most non-supernatural horror or suspense movies, which reduce me to yelling at the screen "just shoot the motherf*cker already!" Most of my friends have learned not to watch horror movies with me... :lol:


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Dox47
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03 Aug 2013, 12:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
No I don't think it's reasonable to be violent. I do understand the emotion of parents against those who harm children. I'm guessing you don't have kids do you.


Why would that matter? Do you think being emotionally involved generally leads to better judgment and decisions?


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BenderRodriguez
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03 Aug 2013, 7:21 am

Dox47 wrote:
Ahh, Funny games I am familiar with. That was one of those movies that was sorta ruined for me because of who I am, to wit my version would have been much shorter: *bang* *bang* *thud* *thud*, "honey, are we out of extra large Hefty bags?". Of course, I feel this way about most non-supernatural horror or suspense movies, which reduce me to yelling at the screen "just shoot the motherf*cker already!" Most of my friends have learned not to watch horror movies with me... :lol:


My wife is just like that :lol: But you see what I mean? We all have that point where we yell "just shoot the motherf*cker already!" Haneke just rubs your face in it with the (in)famous rewind scene.

cyberdad wrote:
No I don't think it's reasonable to be violent. I do understand the emotion of parents against those who harm children. I'm guessing you don't have kids do you.


I have. And I grew up in the system because my parents were not much different than these two. I don't let my emotional reaction take over precisely because I can identify with this poor kid so much.

And I think it's better to vent your anger here than bottle it up. Yet if you do it repeatedly people might think you actually mean it.


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neilson_wheels
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03 Aug 2013, 7:59 am

They have both been given life sentences with a minimum term of 30 years. Let's hope that sticks.

LINK

Regarding the title of the thread and the potential Autism diagnosis, there is no evidence that this poor boy was on the spectrum. This seems to have been raised due to attempts by his mother to distract attention away from the abuse that he was suffering.

Cyberdad - You seem to have chosen a sensational title for this thread with nothing to back it up. It also seems that you have inserted (specialist consultant) into your extract from the article, posted above. The person in question is actually a community paediatrician, quite a different role, I'm sure you will agree?

I feel the key point here is that a health professional could mistake a child suffering severe abuse for one with Autism.

A Social Services inquiry is underway with an expected publication within six weeks time.

Obviously a massive system failure of gigantic proportions, will there be any useful changes proposed? Let's hope so.



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03 Aug 2013, 8:32 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
there is no evidence that this poor boy was on the spectrum. This seems to have been raised due to attempts by his mother to distract attention away from the abuse that he was suffering.
Indeed. She lied to help disguise the abuse.
BBC News wrote:
Daniel's mother claimed he was being treated for a rare eating disorder and school staff were not to feed him. They complied with her instructions.
(...)
The boy had more than 30 separate injuries to his body, the murder was planned and "protracted", and Luczak especially told a "web of lies", police said.

Luczak said the boy had special needs or learning difficulties which were genetic and inherited from his father.

But Daniel's father, Eryk Pelka, told officers that was "completely untrue", the force said.

Det Insp Hanson stated there was "absolutely no evidence" of an eating disorder and he believed Luczak made the story up to conceal the fact Daniel was being starved.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-co ... e-23224826


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BenderRodriguez
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03 Aug 2013, 8:42 am

^
I understand Daniel wasn't their only child. Did you find any information on how they treated the others and what will happen to them?


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neilson_wheels
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03 Aug 2013, 8:54 am

There was one other child who seems to have been treated okay. The sibling hid food for Daniel and bought him food at shops, it was testimony from the brother or sister that revealed Daniel was also regularly held under water until unconscious.

I have not seen any information about the other child's current situation, likely either in the care of Child Services or with the father or his family.



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03 Aug 2013, 12:56 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
My wife is just like that :lol: But you see what I mean? We all have that point where we yell "just shoot the motherf*cker already!" Haneke just rubs your face in it with the (in)famous rewind scene.


I remember feeling distinctly trolled by that scene, but you have to understand that as a gun toting martial artist, in my movie Peter and Paul would have both died long before things got that far, namely right at the golf club scene. It's kinda hard to work a remote with a golf club wrapped around your head and/or an extra ounce of lead in it. I suppose my problem is that I don't identity with the victims in these movies because they seem so oblivious to obvious danger, so to me it's less a horror situation and more like a Darwin Award.


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BenderRodriguez
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03 Aug 2013, 1:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
My wife is just like that :lol: But you see what I mean? We all have that point where we yell "just shoot the motherf*cker already!" Haneke just rubs your face in it with the (in)famous rewind scene.


I remember feeling distinctly trolled by that scene, but you have to understand that as a gun toting martial artist, in my movie Peter and Paul would have both died long before things got that far, namely right at the golf club scene. It's kinda hard to work a remote with a golf club wrapped around your head and/or an extra ounce of lead in it. I suppose my problem is that I don't identity with the victims in these movies because they seem so oblivious to obvious danger, so to me it's less a horror situation and more like a Darwin Award.

LOL yeah, but I never considered it a horror movie as much as a commentary/almost parody to horror movies or, yes, trolling them. The trustfulness of the victims, their helpless and passive attitude goes way too far in your run of the mill horror flick and is I think exaggerated here to drive the point home (particularly the father). So the rewind scene is taking the piss out of another cliché: the audience still expects the helpless victim to suddenly pull out the big guns and kill the bad guy, f**k consistency, I wanna see the a***hole suffer. I think it was meant as a slap in the face: now you scream for blood yourself and I'm not going to give you this kind of satisfaction. I would have hated the film if I saw it as taking itself seriously as a horror flick...

I'd ask what MA you prefer if I won't get lynched myself for derailing :lol:


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03 Aug 2013, 3:06 pm

I couldn't believe the old man's response after the spiral break to the arm was discovered: "In Poland, they look at the child, not the parents." (paraphrase)
Well, you're not in Poland anymore!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Aug 2013, 3:24 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
I'd ask what MA you prefer if I won't get lynched myself for derailing :lol:


Why stop when you are on a roll?



neilson_wheels
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03 Aug 2013, 3:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't believe the old man's response after the spiral break to the arm was discovered: "In Poland, they look at the child, not the parents."


I think that was the mother but yes, how big do you need the red flag to be?



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03 Aug 2013, 3:44 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't believe the old man's response after the spiral break to the arm was discovered: "In Poland, they look at the child, not the parents."


I think that was the mother but yes, how big do you need the red flag to be?


If true, I'd hate to see the child abuse in Poland.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Dox47
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03 Aug 2013, 11:11 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Why stop when you are on a roll?


But notice the crickets where the murder mob used to be... Tactical derail strikes again!


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cyberdad
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04 Aug 2013, 5:17 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
They have both been given life sentences with a minimum term of 30 years. Let's hope that sticks.

LINK

Regarding the title of the thread and the potential Autism diagnosis, there is no evidence that this poor boy was on the spectrum. This seems to have been raised due to attempts by his mother to distract attention away from the abuse that he was suffering.

Cyberdad - You seem to have chosen a sensational title for this thread with nothing to back it up. It also seems that you have inserted (specialist consultant) into your extract from the article, posted above. The person in question is actually a community paediatrician, quite a different role, I'm sure you will agree?

I feel the key point here is that a health professional could mistake a child suffering severe abuse for one with Autism.

A Social Services inquiry is underway with an expected publication within six weeks time.

Obviously a massive system failure of gigantic proportions, will there be any useful changes proposed? Let's hope so.


Dr Chakroborthy was referred to by a school nurse as a "specialist consultant" in paediatrics. Hence the brackets....

The child has a sibling who was not abused. The "likely" reason for the selective abuse is because Daniel was developmentally challenged which the paediatrician suspected was autism.

Yes, lets wait for the report...