what is happening to our country? this is unimaginable!
I do think the hospital bills shouldn't be billed to the victim here. That just seems like adding insult to injury here.
He didn't get stopped by customs.
You missed the point of what I said apparently. I never said he was stopped by customs. I was making the comparison to what would happen up here in a similar situation.
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Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
http://rt.com/usa/new-mexico-police-rec ... ction-328/
In traditional America, government and police served the citizens, and citizens had rights. In the emerging post-American nation, the citizens serve the government and police, and citizens have no rights that government is bound to respect.
I don't believe there was ever a real golden age of police protection, where citizens could thoroughly trust the cops. While there have always been good law officers, there have also been very bad ones who have put their own selfish political and/or material agendas ahead of serving the people. And let's face it, there have always been segments of society who have never been given proper respect or service by law enforcement.
Bill, are you saying that all police are equally good? Were the Cheka, NKVD, or Gestapo really equal to, say, the police forces of the US or western Europe in the 20C? How about if the aforementioned organizations had some good officers in them, which they almost certainly did?
The problem is human nature, which wants as much power over others as possible. And government is the primary vehicle for oppressing others. This is why government needs to be kept small, and on a tight leash.
You really need to reread my post, because I never said a thing about all police being equally good. What I said in a nutshell was, the golden age of the police serving the people is a myth.
Actually, I read your post. Though I disagree with you, I will always accord you the dignity of hearing you out. What I was getting at is what point are you trying to make by pointing out that policing has always led to some abuses? The only conclusion I could infer is one of moral equivalency. If I'm wrong, please explain.
Oh, no, I said there have always been good cops, but the notion that there had ever been a time when all police had always looked out for the public's welfare is a myth.
Of course I don't disagree. But it is also hardly the case that all police forces have been equally humane or decent.
The fact of the matter is that police are only supposed to enforce the laws, not make them. Police don't create the police state; the people the police work for do. And a police state is the result any time the police are working for the state rather than its citizens, which is where we are headed.
While the people who make the laws can and are responsible for over extension of police power, I'm still not going to let the cops off easy on this matter. Plenty of cops have been corrupt, and run their beat like a little dictatorship. Then there's matters of police abuse based on racism, or plain testosterone fuel bullies using the uniform to empower themselves.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
That being said.
I have the sneaking suspicion that all the facts of this situation have not been reported. Clenched butt cheeks isn't enough.
It started as a simple traffic stop. Most of the time, people are not ordered to exit the vehicle in that situation.
You've clearly never been on the "wrong side" of the law before.
The "authorities" depend upon the masses having this attitude to escape their own crimes.
Most likely what really happened was that the man "mouthed off" or "disrespected" or had a "bad attitude" towards the cop in some non-illegal way, and the cop punished him. I've seen this too much. This is a normal and common response/activity for "law enforcement" to engage in.
You can't get tried for anything unless you get arrested first and only cops or a justice of the peace can arrest without witnessing a crime.
So who's going to arrest them? Not another cop. And the relative few "justices of the peace" are too busy doing other, more interesting things to be bothered with some pleb.
Also, since this happened "in the line of duty" any lawsuits won by the victim will be paid by the government, so even there the perpetrator will go unpunished, but got to have a big fat laugh over publicly sodomizing the guy.
That'll teach him to dis a cop.
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I do think the hospital bills shouldn't be billed to the victim here. That just seems like adding insult to injury here.
He didn't get stopped by customs.
You missed the point of what I said apparently. I never said he was stopped by customs. I was making the comparison to what would happen up here in a similar situation.
In the United States, it is a bit of a tossup whether or not the police will be punished. It largely depends on their department and a lot on whether or not the feds see fit to investigate the department.
As for a civil trial for damages, there may be a pretty good possibility that the plaintiff will prevail. American juries tend to find for the little guy even when the justification is weak.
The War on Drugs became a War on Citizens some time ago. This shouldn't be at all surprising.
Don't forget the guy in Los Angeles County who was shot and killed in his house only because the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department was hoping to find drugs so they could seize the property. There was no evidence, not even any articuable suspicion, that he might actually have drugs.
Link please. This would be very interesting to read.
The War on Drugs became a War on Citizens some time ago. This shouldn't be at all surprising.
Don't forget the guy in Los Angeles County who was shot and killed in his house only because the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department was hoping to find drugs so they could seize the property. There was no evidence, not even any articuable suspicion, that he might actually have drugs.
Link please. This would be very interesting to read.
Okay. Here are several (with excerpts -- I hate providing a link without either an executive summary or excerpts of what's on the page):
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Donald_P._Scott:
...
Scott's widow, the former Frances Plante, along with four of Scott's children from previous marriages, subsequently filed a $100 million wrongful death suit against the county and federal government. For eight years the case dragged on, requiring the services of 15 attorneys and some 30 volume binders to hold all the court documents. In January 2000, attorneys for Los Angeles County and the federal government agreed to settle with Scott's heirs and estate for $5 million, even though the sheriff's department still maintained its deputies had done nothing wrong.
From http://www.wnd.com/2000/01/3988/:
Captain Larry Waldie, head of the Sheriff’s Department’s narcotics
bureau, told the Los Angeles Times after the shooting. When Scott came
out of the bedroom, the deputies identified themselves and shouted at
him to put the gun down. As Scott began to lower his arm, one deputy
later said, he “kinda” pointed his gun — which he initially was holding
by the cylinder, not the handle grip — at deputy Spencer who, in fear
for his life, killed him.
...
Although Scott’s ranch was in Ventura County, none of
the 31 people participating in the massive early morning raid, which
included officers from the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department, the DEA,
the National Park Service, the California National Guard and the Border
Patrol bothered to invite any Ventura County officers to come along.
Furthermore, once Scott was shot, Los Angeles County tried to claim
jurisdiction over the investigation of Scott’s death, even though the
shooting occured in Ventura County.
To Bradbury, it was easy to see why. L.A. County wanted jurisdiction.
In a 64-page report issued by Bradbury’s office in March of 1993,
Bradbury concluded that the search warrant contained numerous
misstatements, evasions and omissions. The purpose of the raid, he
wrote, was never to find some evanescent marijuana plantation. It was to
seize Scott’s ranch under asset forfeiture laws and then divide the
proceeds with participating agencies, such as the National Park Service,
which had put Scott’s ranch on a list of property it would one day like
to acquire, and the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department, which heavily
relied on assets seized in drug raids to supplement its otherwise
inadequate budget.
There are a number of other instances showing the War on Drugs has become a War on Honest Citizens instead.
For example, there was a man in Milwaukee who owned an apartment building. He went to the police to complain about drugs being sold there wanting the police to investigate and arrest those responsible. They didn't do anything. Several months later, he went again to the police. This time they did do something -- since he clearly knew about the drug activity since he had complained before, they seized the building.
For example, there was a charter pilot who flew a man into Albuquerque from further west (from Las Vegas or somewhere in California, if I remember correctly). When they landed, the police searched the customer and found a suitcase of money. They then used the large amount of money, probably drug related, as a reason to not only seize the money, but also the charter pilot's King Air worth about a million dollars. I don't know if he ever got it back, but if he did, it took more than a year. What a way to kill a business.
For example, there was the owner of plant nursery in Nashville (I think) who was flying to Houston to buy plants for his nursery and was carrying about $8,000 to buy the plants. When he paid cash for the airline ticket, the ticket agent called the police who arrived at the airport and confiscated the money because they thought that it might be used to buy drugs.
For example, in Florida for a few years, the police were regularly stopping drivers on an Interstate going into Florida and confiscating money from people who were carrying too much cash on them. How much was too much? If you were black, it was as low as any amount more than $100.
For example, one guy I used to know took his family on vacation to Dallas about twenty years ago. He had no bank account and no credit card and dealt only in cash. When the cashier at a restaurant saw how much cash he had on him when he paid for their meal one night, she called the police who then spent two or more hours taking his car apart in the parking lot looking for drugs. When they didn't find any, they left, leaving him and his wife and his two small kids to put the car back together in the parking lot.
There are plenty of more examples.
auntblabby
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Location: the island of defective toy santas
More than even this one extreme 14 hr. anal search on the NM man, there are two more documented ones in the same county of recent - one a innocent female who had a 2-way "deep search". Such outrages, plus indiscriminate killings, are going on all over the country. This is part of the DHS federalization of Gestapo tactics down to the local level. It is designed to intimidate & hummilate citizens so we'll cower & never question them. I'm an attorney & the Constitution began to be gutted w/the Patriot Act. We've lost our rights, & the powers to be want to keep it that way. Also, there is evidence that police forces here seek low-IQ sadists for recruits. Our worse problem is there has been a huge purge of top military brass, unprecedented, who won't go along with taking arms from citizens or firing upon us just on orders. DHS ordered $2m plus in targets w/children, pg women & the elderly for "desensetizing" shooters! We're in for it & don't even know! Just Google all this to verify!
auntblabby
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Dear Blabbey- Corporatism is just a simpilistic name for what is happening overall, better called systemic corruption - all forms/levels. All 3 branches have been bought. First, no one can trust/look to mass media. Independent thought is required. Alt media can't be fully trusted either, so one has to do countless searches/confirmations to move a pawn's chess piece forward. Do no truck w/the ID'ed b-tards! What's happening to this country is that we are in an unknown, undeclared internal war - peremeters unlimited. Unknown worlds require special people which I believe WP represents at its best. Hang on !
auntblabby
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Gender: Male
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Location: the island of defective toy santas
auntblabby
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,295
Location: the island of defective toy santas
Well if a woman can get eighty-seven hundred billion dollars for spilling coffee then this guy sure deserves something.
I think he'll get something, maybe even a lot. When I read about this on another site recently it said that the search warrant was expired and done in the wrong county so even if it wasn't expired it didn't count.
I don't even now why the doctors did it. They didn't have consent from the patient and the first hospital refused to do it.

that is about as cold-comfort as cold comfort gets.