ACLU: Police encounters kill hundreds of disabled Americans

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SpiceWolf
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24 Mar 2015, 10:49 am

YippySkippy wrote:
2) Cops are not the right people to respond to 911 callers who are specifically seeking help dealing with mental illness. Right now the choices are cops, EMTs, or fire response. We need a fourth choice - mental health professionals.


That reminds me we did have a problem with police shooting mentally ill people in the late 1980's early 90's in Australia.
The solution they went with was, what was the name???

Crisis Assessment Taskforce, CAT, or something like that.
It was a team of first responders who specialise in dealing with mentally ill people.

As far as I can tell, that seems to have worked quite well.



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24 Mar 2015, 11:36 am

alex wrote:
The blame should be placed on the lack of training, not the officers themselves. Unless an officer is legitimately at fault in a specific instance.

Normally, I would agree with this method of assessing blame, but what do we do with all the "good cops" who look the other way by not reporting the illegal and/or unconstitutional acts of the "bad cops" who kill disabled Americans? If I saw a bank robbery in progress, and could accurately describe the perpetrator(s) and what he, she or they did during the robbery, should I be exempt from state laws which prohibit me from withholding my knowledge of that evidence? No, that would make me a criminal (obstruction of justice), just like it makes criminals of the "good cops" who look the other way. The same lawful expectation should vigorously be enforced against law-enforcement officers (LEOs) when they witness illegal or unconstitutional acts, and choose to "get real stupid, real fast." I have little sympathy for that class of "good cops." Like every corporate environment, every LEO of every law-enforcement agency (LEA) knows who's who and who does what, good and bad. So, if a LEA is infamous for a disproportionate number of "justified" deaths, I suspect immediately that the LEA's "good cops" aren't so good, after all.


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Adamantium
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24 Mar 2015, 11:52 am

AspieUtah wrote:
t what do we do with all the "good cops" who look the other way by not reporting the illegal and/or unconstitutional acts of the "bad cops" who kill disabled Americans?


I think this is very large problem at all levels of policing in the US. In many areas, like New York, there is almost no accountability. The CCRB doesn't work and the culture within the agencies is like gang culture: no snitches tolerated. There is a segment of the population that always supports the police, no matter how extreme or pervasive misconduct or outright criminality among officers gets, so there is no easy path to improving the situation.



Canadian1911
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24 Mar 2015, 11:54 am

Adamantium wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
t what do we do with all the "good cops" who look the other way by not reporting the illegal and/or unconstitutional acts of the "bad cops" who kill disabled Americans?


I think this is very large problem at all levels of policing in the US. In many areas, like New York, there is almost no accountability. The CCRB doesn't work and the culture within the agencies is like gang culture: no snitches tolerated. There is a segment of the population that always supports the police, no matter how extreme or pervasive misconduct or outright criminality among officers gets, so there is no easy path to improving the situation.


That is true, and fighting the government, is an uphill battle.



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24 Mar 2015, 2:31 pm

SpiceWolf wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If people feel so badly for the poor, disabled people in this country, then what are so many of them homeless and wandering the streets?

If the cop-haters would turn their attention to actually helping and protecting homeless and disabled people, ...


You mean like this man perhaps?
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justi ... s-charges/

today's cops are just doing the bidding of today's jay goulds [IOW the 1%], who said "I can hire one half of the working class to kill off the other half." at least in places like ferguson, they protect and serve ONLY the 1%- everybody else they harass and find some way of robbing of their money and liberty.



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25 Mar 2015, 11:08 pm

Two LAPD officers awarded $4 million in discrimination lawsuit after killing unarmed Autistic man

In 2010 one Latino, one black members of the LAPD shot and killed an unarmed autistic man Steven Washington. A civilian commission said the shooting was unjustified. Washington's mom was awarded $950,000 by the city and the cops were given indefinite desk duty. They filed a lawsuit claiming the "punishment" was discrimination and a jury awarded each cop $2 million dollars this week. The attorney for the cops is the father of an Autistic son.


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auntblabby
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25 Mar 2015, 11:26 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Two LAPD officers awarded $4 million in discrimination lawsuit after killing unarmed Autistic man

In 2010 one Latino, one black members of the LAPD shot and killed an unarmed autistic man Steven Washington. A civilian commission said the shooting was unjustified. Washington's mom was awarded $950,000 by the city and the cops were given indefinite desk duty. They filed a lawsuit claiming the "punishment" was discrimination and a jury awarded each cop $2 million dollars this week. The attorney for the cops is the father of an Autistic son.

it's official - no bad deed goes unrewarded. it would not surprise me if somebody sued the mother of the person those cops negligently shot.



Jacoby
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25 Mar 2015, 11:36 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Two LAPD officers awarded $4 million in discrimination lawsuit after killing unarmed Autistic man

In 2010 one Latino, one black members of the LAPD shot and killed an unarmed autistic man Steven Washington. A civilian commission said the shooting was unjustified. Washington's mom was awarded $950,000 by the city and the cops were given indefinite desk duty. They filed a lawsuit claiming the "punishment" was discrimination and a jury awarded each cop $2 million dollars this week. The attorney for the cops is the father of an Autistic son.


what a joke, they literally won the lottery for murdering somebody

hopefully the city appeals until to highest court they have to take it, they shouldn't of even been given desks jobs they should of been fired. their argument for discrimination was that white police officers were able to murder with impunity and return to the field, only in America!

since police can murder anyone when they "fear for their life" does that mean I can kill a police officer that makes me fear for mine?



Humanaut
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26 Mar 2015, 12:07 am

Have any of you bothered to read the ruling?



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26 Mar 2015, 3:02 am

auntblabby wrote:
this is the fruit of a national trend of hiring defective people to be policemen. many places will not hire cops whose IQ is one standard deviation beyond the mean. many places hire people who were ex-infantrymen who are trained to see everybody as a potential enemy. this sort of thing is no longer mere dystopian novel scariness, but is happening now.


I know, it's positively insane! You'd think municipalities would want to hire the very best people to protect our lives and property. And if the average street cop is a dullard, what does that say about detectives who are supposed to use the noodle between their ears to solve crimes? Seriously, whoever came up with this policy must have done so in order to keep dumb people employed!
Incidentally, in downtown Spokane a few years ago, a suicidal man had been threatening to jump to his death in the Spokane river, when the police arrived and managed to talk him down. And then what do you know, one of the dumbsh*t cops tasered the poor man, who, trying to get away from the sudden agony, leaped to his death. The explanation was, tasering a potential suicide was procedure. Whoever came up with such an insufferably insane policy should be locked up, then have the room thrown away. :x


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auntblabby
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26 Mar 2015, 3:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
this is the fruit of a national trend of hiring defective people to be policemen. many places will not hire cops whose IQ is one standard deviation beyond the mean. many places hire people who were ex-infantrymen who are trained to see everybody as a potential enemy. this sort of thing is no longer mere dystopian novel scariness, but is happening now.


I know, it's positively insane! You'd think municipalities would want to hire the very best people to protect our lives and property. And if the average street cop is a dullard, what does that say about detectives who are supposed to use the noodle between their ears to solve crimes? Seriously, whoever came up with this policy must have done so in order to keep dumb people employed!
Incidentally, in downtown Spokane a few years ago, a suicidal man had been threatening to jump to his death in the Spokane river, when the police arrived and managed to talk him down. And then what do you know, one of the dumbsh*t cops tasered the poor man, who, trying to get away from the sudden agony, leaped to his death. The explanation was, tasering a potential suicide was procedure. Whoever came up with such an insufferably insane policy should be locked up, then have the room thrown away. :x

it is "the policy" and does not have to make sense. it is from on high echelons beyond reality. here is something I read ages ago and it still makes a perverse kind of sense to me-

In the beginning was the plan.
And then came the assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was without substance.
And darkness was upon the face of the people.
And they spoke among themselves saying,
"It is a crock of dung and it stinketh."
And the people went unto their city councilmen and said,
"It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof."
And the councilmen went unto their mayor and said,
"It is a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."
And the mayor went unto the city police commission, saying,
"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength."
And the commission members spoke among themselves, saying to one another,
"It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong."
And the commissioners reported back to the mayor, saying unto him,
"It promotes growth and is very powerful."
And the mayor went unto the council, saying unto them,
"The new plan will promote the growth and vigor of the city, with powerful effects."
And the council looked upon the plan and saw that it was good.
And the plan became policy.
This is how s**t happens.



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26 Mar 2015, 4:07 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
this is the fruit of a national trend of hiring defective people to be policemen. many places will not hire cops whose IQ is one standard deviation beyond the mean. many places hire people who were ex-infantrymen who are trained to see everybody as a potential enemy. this sort of thing is no longer mere dystopian novel scariness, but is happening now.


I know, it's positively insane! You'd think municipalities would want to hire the very best people to protect our lives and property. And if the average street cop is a dullard, what does that say about detectives who are supposed to use the noodle between their ears to solve crimes? Seriously, whoever came up with this policy must have done so in order to keep dumb people employed!
Incidentally, in downtown Spokane a few years ago, a suicidal man had been threatening to jump to his death in the Spokane river, when the police arrived and managed to talk him down. And then what do you know, one of the dumbsh*t cops tasered the poor man, who, trying to get away from the sudden agony, leaped to his death. The explanation was, tasering a potential suicide was procedure. Whoever came up with such an insufferably insane policy should be locked up, then have the room thrown away. :x

it is "the policy" and does not have to make sense. it is from on high echelons beyond reality. here is something I read ages ago and it still makes a perverse kind of sense to me-

In the beginning was the plan.
And then came the assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was without substance.
And darkness was upon the face of the people.
And they spoke among themselves saying,
"It is a crock of dung and it stinketh."
And the people went unto their city councilmen and said,
"It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof."
And the councilmen went unto their mayor and said,
"It is a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."
And the mayor went unto the city police commission, saying,
"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength."
And the commission members spoke among themselves, saying to one another,
"It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong."
And the commissioners reported back to the mayor, saying unto him,
"It promotes growth and is very powerful."
And the mayor went unto the council, saying unto them,
"The new plan will promote the growth and vigor of the city, with powerful effects."
And the council looked upon the plan and saw that it was good.
And the plan became policy.
This is how s**t happens.


I needed a good laugh! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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26 Mar 2015, 10:20 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Washington's mom was awarded $950,000 by the city and the cops were given indefinite desk duty. They filed a lawsuit claiming the "punishment" was discrimination and a jury awarded each cop $2 million dollars this week. The attorney for the cops is the father of an Autistic son.


So having a son killed is 950K, but getting put on desk duty is 2,000K?!?

Regardless of the merits of the findings of guilt or innocence, those compensation payouts seem grossly out of alignment with sanity.



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26 Mar 2015, 11:54 am

Fewer cops is the answer since the quality of them cannot be expected to improve. The job usually doesnt pay very well and if any emergency service is to receive higher incomes I'd much rather it be firemen and paramedics.

As far as suicide by cop I have only this to say: If you point a gun directly at or fire upon any armed individual you can expect to have them shoot back. I will shoot back at someone on those grounds and it's tuff shi+ for them if they are "handicapped". I'm not willing to risk life or limb so closely just because they might only be doing it to get me to shoot them.
Having said that; yes, some cops overreact and shoot when they don't need to under the cloak of "officer safety" which I'm getting tired of hearing.
Best bet: Fewer cops.


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26 Mar 2015, 12:44 pm

I respectfully disagree, Raptor. In my opinion, fewer police is not the answer; better screening and training for the police we already have is.

Keeping weapons out of the hands of known mentally-disturbed individuals is another good idea; as is taking better care of those deemed Non Compos Mentis by the courts.

(As I've said before, if good citizens are so all-bloody concerned about mentally-disabled homeless people being shot by police, then why aren't those concerned citizens taking better care of the mentally-disabled homeless people themselves?)

Of course, it would help to know which people are able-minded and which are not. If only there was an easier way of identifying mentally disabled people than hearing from their next-of-kin a day or two after a disabled is killed.

(Again, if a family is really all that concerned about their homeless relative after he or she gets shot, then why didn't they care enough to keep that homeless relative off the streets and away from the police?)



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26 Mar 2015, 12:54 pm

"Hundreds of disabled Americans" sounds terrible, but it doesn't necessarily imply a genuine problem.