Lubitz: clear signs of NPD, not depression
Campin_Cat
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Age: 64
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
PS: Narcissists dump you when you are no longer a useful source of their narcissistic supply. You could be in critical care in hospital and they would dump you because you are no longer of use to them. Sadly, I know of one instance where this happened to a person whom I know well. The callous indifference the NPDs can inflict on others is shocking to the rest of us.
Whoops, you snuck-in on me there, B19!
Yeah, I sort-of "named" the situation, loosely, 35 years ago, when I first got rid of my sister, by saying: "It's not ME, it's HER"! ! I think what really got me riled-up, earlier (so much so, that I had to take medicine), was reading that page, that I posted (I book-marked YOUR pages, and will read them when I come-down from this), and talking about it (I had been meaning to start a thread, asking for advice on how to get-along with spoiled-rotten relatives----but, as YOU say, this gives it a BETTER "name"); and, also, it brought to mind all that stuff with the counselor and it just made me "erupt", again.
Yeah, I totally agree that they'll dump you, when you no-longer "feed" them----she's done it many times, BEFORE, when I was no longer any use to her----and / or, I wasn't "complying" by, like, not being willing to be a participant in her drama / charade / whatever.
Yeah, her callous indifference never ceases to amaze me!! She would NEVER see that it's HER, that is wrong----with ME, for instance, she would say it was MY fault ("I" am the one with the diagnosis, afterall).
Thanks, so much, B19, for your responses----I really appreciate it!!
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
Quoted for truth.
This is the hump I'm currently trying to get over in my divorce process. NPD abusers..... are great chameleons and will stop at nothing to get their way. The damage they leave in their wake is inconsequential to them. It's bad enough to damage 1 person... to take 150 with you is unconscionable.
Yep, I totally agree!!
You are more than welcome. If I had my way, I would educate the whole world about these predators. (They all have some form of predatory instincts toward other humans, however well disguised, and many of them are absolute masters of disguise).
This link - about the paedophile Jimmy Savile - is interesting as an example of the 'celebrity' narcissist:
http://thewritingowl.hubpages.com/hub/N ... mmy-Savile
It's important to always place mass murderers in the most despised categories of mental illness - namely, NPD and AntisocialPD.
That's where they belong though. It doesn't do any good to coddle them. It's not as if these two conditions are anything to be proud of - and that's exactly the problem. These types of people are already too proud. Sorry, but a seriously, deeply, depressed person would not even be able to fly the plane. He would not be able to get out of bed. Yes, there is walking depression, but it's not as if someone gets so severely depressed that they just decide "oh, I'm going to kill a bunch of people today." Pilot had this planned for what was probably a very long time.
How the press turned the actions of a mass murderer into a fear-mongering campaign about depression:
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.nz ... ubitz.html
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.nz ... ubitz.html
look on the sunny side,
depressed peeps may stop going to their doctor
and stop receiving happy pills
that screw them up
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.nz ... ubitz.html
look on the sunny side,
depressed peeps may stop going to their doctor
and stop receiving happy pills
that screw them up
That isn't the sunny side up. Often, they shove the pills on the person and then shove them out of door (or out of classes.) Those pills aren't a cure all, and it is hard to know which pill works, and a person has the right to refuse them.
Many people suffering from their depression prefer to use the depression than to medicate it away.
Yet, their rights are violated and they are stigmatized and forcibly removed from university or other such parts of society for simply being depressed.
_________________
Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x
heres todays explanation in NZ's national newspaper, taken from an online Australian site 'the conversation'
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/new ... d=11426289
Personally, I dont buy the NPD diagnoses for Lubitz, I know NPD's, they are smiling cheshire cats who seldom self destruct as it would spell the end of their narcissistic supply...
French Alps crash: Expert explains 'murder-suicide'
By Peter Kinderman
8:30 AM Wednesday Apr 1, 2015
It seems beyond doubt that the co-pilot of Germanwings flight 4U9525 made a conscious decision to destroy the plane and kill the passengers. As with all other "murder-suicides", this is a psychological phenomenon that demands an explanation, and action to prevent future tragedies as far as that is possible.
Read also: Airline knew of killer co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's 'severe depression' for six years
But it's not simple - and while it is entirely right to understand the psychological make-up of the young man who appears to have been responsible it's not as simple as blaming "mental illness", much less "depression".
Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appears to have hidden evidence of an illness from his employers.
It is very rare indeed to be a victim of a murder-suicide event and in those rare circumstances where risk is associated with mental health, it's almost always associated with the risk to the person with the mental health issue, whether from their own actions or from violence directed at them by other people. Murder-suicide events should be seen as related to a specific individual and their particular circumstances, rather than simplistically explained in terms of a person "having a mental illness".
Of course these types of actions can each be very different. It can involve family members or those close to or known to the perpetrator - for example colleagues or classmates. Others might involve strangers and, in the case of Andreas Lubitz on the Germanwings flight, probably a mix of both. Some actions may be more detached than others, for example the use of a gun or in this case an action from a closed cockpit. Each tragedy is unique.
However we do know some things about why people violently attack others and then end their own lives. We know from the other (admittedly very rare) murder-suicide events, that these attacks are usually carried out by young men (young men are, in our society, much more likely to be aggressive), a sense of alienation and resentment against other people and society (often fuelled by very real prejudice and unjust social circumstances), a sense of disillusionment and hopelessness, and attraction towards notorious glamour - often, ironically, fuelled by the kinds of headlines that I and my colleagues in mental health resent. And of course ready access to lethal weapons.
Some of these emotions and belief systems are recognisably similar to the misery suffered by many millions of people who, of course, have no intention to harm themselves or others (even if they occasionally take a few days off work, seek professional help or even seek a medical solution). It's disrespectful and discriminatory to suggest that, because people in these violent, alienated or resentful frames of mind have some similarities with people in more understandable distress, depressed people should not be allowed to fly passenger jets (as the Daily Mail and Piers Morgan have implied) or that "depression" or "mental illness" can somehow explain these events.
James Ogloff, a psychologist and the director of Swinburne University of Technology's Centre for Forensic Behavioural Science, has said that those who commit murder-suicide "have more in common with a suicidal person than a murderer" - but we know of course that the vast majority of the more than 800,000 people who take their lives each year have no intention of taking other lives. Murder-suicide events suggest, then, people "particularly resentful and angry against society broadly, or against a particular organisation".
In circumstances when these kinds of events do happen we need to be clear about how rare they are and create a culture whereby people struggling with mental health problems will feel comfortable with sharing those ideas with their friends, their relatives, their colleagues and their bosses.
Identifying alienation and intent
In the US and in other countries, there have been instances of murder-suicide events in places such as schools. Last year Elliot Rodger killed six people and injured another 14 in Isla Vista, California before turning his gun on himself. Such actions affect the more than those directly involved, particularly the families of those who decide to kill others before themselves.
Part of the enormously complex picture here is the ready accessibility of lethal weapons. That's why America, with its culture of domestic gun-ownership, suffers disproportionately from these kinds of tragedies. In the Germanwings tragedy, it does appear at first sight that the co-pilot used his aircraft as a weapon (something we know is not impossible).
But it doesn't really make sense to suggest that we would be protected if people with mental health problems were prevented from obtaining pilots' licences. To proceed down that route seems impractical - we wouldn't want to identify common and, in this context, irrelevant mental health issues (such as "depression"), since they are only tangentially related to this kind of behaviour. In any case, these are routinely screened for.
What we would have to do is identify young men with a sense of alienation and resentment against other people and society, a sense of disillusionment and hopelessness and the intention to kill others in a bid for notoriety. We should all be on our guard for such traits, though demonising people with mental health problems will not prevent this kind of event from happening.
So what should - what could - we do? I think we should encourage people to be open to their mental health and psychological well-being, and to seek help when necessary. We all share idiosyncrasies in our psychological make-up, and all of us experience problems from time-to-time which, when serious, get labelled as "mental health problems". But these have nothing to do with the rare actions of mostly lone individuals.
Perhaps most importantly, we should also look to common-sense security precautions. Many airlines have introduced new security regulations to ensure that there are at least two members of the flight crew on the flight-desk at any one time. This is a perfectly reasonable response. It remains to be seen what else could have been done by the airline to prevent this terrible tragedy but there will no doubt be a close investigation and intelligent recommendations. These recommendations may well include calls for greater openness and acceptance of psychological issues and those mental health problems that are common to all of us.
Where to get help:
• Lifeline: 0800 543 354 (available 24/7)
• Suicide Crisis Helpline: 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO) (available 24/7)
• Youth services: (06) 3555 906
• Youthline: 0800 376 633
• Kidsline: 0800 543 754 (4pm to 6pm weekdays)
• Whatsup: 0800 942 8787 (1pm to 11pm)
• The Word
• Depression helpline: 0800 111 757 (available 24/7)
• Rainbow Youth: (09) 376 4155
• CASPER Suicide Prevention
If it is an emergency and you feel like you or someone else is at risk, call 111.
Peter Kinderman is a Professor of Clinical Psychology at University of Liverpool
The Conversation
This article was originally published on The Conversation.
Read the original article.
The linked article makes the very important point that the homicidal, mass killer pilot Andreas Lubitz had clear signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Nevertheless, mass ignorance and stigmatizing have added to the suffering of people experiencing depression (likely to be much more depressed now).
This man did not committ mass murder because he "had depression" as the ignorant media immediately claimed.
He had the grandiosity of self, indifference to others, desire to be famous, manipulative lying and other character defects that are typical and classical hallmarks of NPD - Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I am fed up with the crap, that further sitgmatises depressed people. It is very analogous to the way that the same ignorant media stigmatises all people on the spectrum when a mass murderer happens to be on the spectrum - or not on the spectrum but immediately post-humously diagnosed by the ignorant media as being on the spectrum.
I am disgusted.
NPD? how specific is that? Not very? Why not call him a sociopath?
Interesting piece in the New Yorker today:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... s-disaster
The linked article makes the very important point that the homicidal, mass killer pilot Andreas Lubitz had clear signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Nevertheless, mass ignorance and stigmatizing have added to the suffering of people experiencing depression (likely to be much more depressed now).
This man did not committ mass murder because he "had depression" as the ignorant media immediately claimed.
He had the grandiosity of self, indifference to others, desire to be famous, manipulative lying and other character defects that are typical and classical hallmarks of NPD - Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I am fed up with the crap, that further sitgmatises depressed people. It is very analogous to the way that the same ignorant media stigmatises all people on the spectrum when a mass murderer happens to be on the spectrum - or not on the spectrum but immediately post-humously diagnosed by the ignorant media as being on the spectrum.
I am disgusted.
NPD? how specific is that? Not very? Why not call him a sociopath?
Two different fields of study. Sociopath is a criminological term. NPD is a psychological term. Psychopath would probably be more accurate than sociopath, if your worried about specifics.
_________________
Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x
btbnnyr
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Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/courts-crime/story/researcher-nice-and-quiet-appeared-be-under-stress-20150402
This story reminded me of lubitz story and also articles that I read this week about people with severe depression having dissociative states.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
