Hillary Clinton: Gun Control To Be A Decision For Democrats

Post Reply New Topic

You say "It's about time we destroyed the hold that the gun industry lobby has over our laws."

Would you have us destroy our entire form of government which allows for lobbying in every form & which also allows citizen's concerns to be pleaded to members of the legislature? How will you do the destroying since it seems against the will of the people?

You also mention universal background checks to stop all person-to-person gun sales (those without Federal investigation), public or private. But you...as well as anyone on this forum with similar views......never seem to want to address the issue of States Rights, which I believe is the main issue here.

In some states, often rural, people feel selling a personal weapon is the same as selling a goat or a chicken, and don't want government involvement in their personal business. This attitude is 100% legal and above board, supported both by their state's legislature and their state's population. These state's legislatures feel there is a difference between the needs of rural states and those with high urban populations and aren't impressed by any Federal "flexing of muscles."

You also say: "All guns should mark their bullets using a firing pin with a unique pattern." Sorry, but this is someone's short sighted ridiculous idea, that has no merit, except perhaps for a manufacturer (or politician) who could profit from such a useless idea. Two seconds spent with a small piece of sandpaper and all markings on any firing pin made of any material whatsoever are obliterated forever. This is not a secret.

What is this "hold" that the gun industry has over our laws?


Do you know anything about current law?


Not because they don't want to but because it's impossible.


Why, other than to create a new class of criminal for the cops to chase, to clutter up the courts, and to feed the ever growing prison system?
The people in hell want ice water.


Uh...wut??

^This is it right here; wanting things that they are clueless about.

It's certainly not against states rights to regulate firearms, it's an industry that crosses state lines. An industry that is able to buy politicians, and this isn't limited to the gun industry. The influence of lobbyists is a scandal that undermines democracy in general. Background checks for every transaction is not impossible, yes it may take time... who cares. I know you could file down a digitally marked firing pin, also so what, you can make a gun from scratch, but it's still illegal if you don't register it. You will own an illegal gun. This will reduce the time it takes to track bullets used in crimes.

Lobbying is not freedom of speech, it's not a protected practice. And it's not like individuals are allowed to lobby congress members directly.

While I consider myself pretty far left (in conventional terms...) I don't plan on owning a hybrid any time soon unless PHEV projects become substantially cheaper, meaning anybody could balance the advantages of one power source over the other. Gotta say I can't believe I'm also seemingly the only one incredulous about having their car likened to a mini gun. Yes it's fun to build them a bit overpowered but cars have been built with the express purpose of keeping drivers & everyone else alive for decades. I strongly doubt any gun enthusiasts truly give a damn about building safe cars. Around here they tend to drive around in lifted pickups about to flip off their Chinese tires. I digress; I also don't feel any of these people represent my interests so I'm not voting for them yet.

My Volvo can tear the doors off your Suburban in any gear.

I'm not 100% on board with background checks, what criteria is used to determine who is too mentally ill? Given that a different healthcare provider can give a different diagnosis and make a different recommendation means that process wouldn't be reliable. And people with criminal backgrounds should have been dealt with by the justice system, any felons being released from prison should be rehabilitated to the point of being able to work, vote, own guns, and travel. The notion that once someone is a felon, they should face life-long sanctions is wrong.

Of course responsible gun owners should control access to their arsenal, past massacres have been carried out with other people's weapons. I don't see how a law could enforce this because controlling access could involve a range of measures and having some government bureaucrat come through with a checklist to make sure you did it a certain way sounds less than useful. I don't see why owners couldn't at least face fines if their weapons ever did get used for a massacre though.

The primary reason I safeguard mine is to protect me from loss. If someone busts into my house or locked car and steals a gun from me it's them who is committing the crime, not me.

Lobbying is not freedom of speech, it's not a protected practice. And it's not like individuals are allowed to lobby congress members directly.[/quote]

If you contact your local Congressional representative you may be able to do so. I see this displayed in the news from time to time. Not for the average request (I need more frequent garbage pickup) because methods are in place already to address complaints at a local level. You may contact your representatives at any time. But this strays from the intent of the thread.

You say:
"I know you could file down a digitally marked firing pin, also so what, you can make a gun from scratch, but it's still illegal if you don't register it. You will own an illegal gun. This will reduce the time it takes to track bullets used in crimes."

One thing you don't seem to understand about criminals: They don't care if the gun they have is illegal as they are going to use it for an illegal purpose anyway. In fact an illegal gun can not be tracked to them, a plus in a criminal's eyes. After they modify the gun you can not use that method any more to track the gun.

Please understand we send our convicted criminals to a university for criminals where they learn these and many more criminal techniques. They are much more knowledgeable than you and I in the criminal use of weapons.

And please note the firing pin markings only mark cases, not bullets. In fact I just read this morning some jurisdiction back East has discontinued a multi-year, multi-million dollar plan for saving bullets, used in crimes, to be measured, categorized and used to convict criminals in future crimes. The plan was a total failure. This story should still be on line if you're interested. They found this just doesn't work.

Here is is....15 years and 5 million dollars and not one case (ha) solved:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/10/sc ... ero-cases/

The problem is not guns....it's mental health. Idiot legislators, however, will waste money on any scheme if they think it will get you to vote for them.

"Yes it's fun to build them a bit overpowered but cars have been built with the express purpose of keeping drivers & everyone else alive for decades."

Just a little note to note the "express purpose" of automotive safety equipment, is actually to protect the people inside the car which would have little or no effect on people outside the car who do not have seat belts and air bags to protect them.

Sadly, in a public crowd, your Volvo (or any other vehicle) could indeed have the same effect on a crowd as a mini gun. The answer to this type of threat is proper use of cement barricades at all public events.

I was going to explain that glaringly obvious detail to him but I figured it would be on par with explaining the theory of relativity to a common housefly. Apparently we have people that believe a gun and ammunition works like a pinball machine with the firing pin impacting the bullet hard enough to obviate the need for primer and gunpowder.


Let alone the scheme to have firing pins in each individual gun that leve a forensically unique pattern on each "bullet".

[sarcasm]But of course how can we do anything like that with the NRA backed by their gun industry masters having the entire nation in a chokehold. Trillions of Americans pray for stricter controls on gun sales and banning dangerous assault weapons but the NRA continues to hold us in an ever tightening death grip as the streets run red with blood.[sarcasm/]


Really, I've been in these WP gunz-r-bad threads since about 2007-08 and the gun hater's rationale has actually gotten sillier (read that more desperate) over the years.

You say: "Trillions of Americans pray for stricter controls on gun sales....."
This is true. There were 6 trillion from Chicago alone.

It's true, everyone is so frightened that even Obama is so afraid of the NRA that he has the Secret Service check under his bed every night.

It's a slow but steady learning situation. The uninformed folk are only repeating what they've been taught to believe is true. Nothing wrong with that. It's us, being in some way teachers, who need to be skillful and patient.

At least 6 trillion.


Certainly! The NRA has tremendous resources; spies, assassins, terrorists, etc. The government must do something about it before it's too late and the NRA takes total control of the country. It'll be the Third Reich all over again.


I live in constant fear of guns and the NRA I tell you. FEAR!! !


No, most of it is actually willful ignorance and partisanship. They have had it painstakingly explained to them over and over for several years to no avail. We've had several crops of them over the years but the story is basically the same. Sure they change their tactics but it's the same s**t under a different label.

*snip* *snip* *snip* *snip*
ZenDen

RAPTOR
No, most of it is actually willful ignorance and partisanship. They have had it painstakingly explained to them over and over for several years to no avail. We've had several crops of them over the years but the story is basically the same. Sure they change their tactics but it's the same s**t under a different label.[/quote]
ZenDen
I think we may be agreeing but we're looking from different directions. Maybe wishful thinking on my part?
I see many thoughtful people, looking at world violence today and deciding having a weapon for self protection isn't a bad idea after all. That would leave a greater proportion of the "silly" people you describe, who are unable to wrap their minds around a concept such as self defense and can only bleat when a violent atrocity occurs.

It must be just fear.......did you know there are sheep which, if you just hold them down for a moment, become so paralyzed by fear they actually become comatose (it's a wild animal survival technique called "playing possum").....I believe many people live like this. It must be awful to have such fear.....too frightened to stand up for yourself or your family and be frozen and unable to do anything, and be forced to accept what others will do to you; just like a bunch of sardines or most of the people that filled the death camps.

There are sheep out there and all they know is to be sheep. It would be foolish to save one from the wolf because you'd risk having them testify against you in favor of the wolf whose rights you violated by taking the law into your own hands and killing or putting said wolf in ICU. I don't trust sheep and I generally have less respect for them than wolves. For all practical purposes it would be best to let the wolves kill off all the sheep then kill the wolves. Call it chlorinating the gene pool.

Then there are the control freaks. We had one here on WP a few years ago that told me he didn't care about criminal use of guns but he didn't want me to have one because (according to him) I "fear" something.

Then there are the liberal partisans: "Guns are bad because Obama said so and/or conservatives like them."

The tuff guy: "Well I can bench XXX lbs so I hardly thnk I need a gun. If someone pulls a gun on me Ill just take it from him and shove it up his ass. I'm that tuff and I stink, too."

Last but not least is the anti-gun gun owner.
- "I like shooting trap and skeet but I see no need for anyone to own a hangun and especially not an assault rifle. A shotgun is all anyone needs to defend themselves if it comes to it".
- "I have my CCW and a few handguns but I think assault rifles should be outlawed."
- "I'm a hunter and I put meat on the table for my family. If you don't hunt you don't need a gun."
- "I have a lot of guns but I wouldn't mind it if I had to register them. What do I have to hide?"
- "I'm a gun owner but I think we need tighter regulations and bans on certain weapons."

These are a few samples I've heard spewing from the mouths of the anti-gun gun owner in the real world alone. They could be considered the worse of the lot since people assume that by being gun owners that they are by reason pro-gun.

So, if what you describe as your experiences are, inevitably, always true then why do you spend time here? Is it only to argue and denigrate others? I think your answer might reflect you actually believing that what you say may make a difference in someone's viewpoint/life.

You said: "It would be foolish to save one from the wolf because you'd risk having them testify against you in favor of the wolf whose rights......" and I'd have to wonder how you can know this....experience? Has someone in your life turned their back on you? Or is it just more frustration? No one said it would be easy.

In the mean time could you tell me what makes "us" special and (at least you) NOT a sheep? Certainly your personal philosophy allows others a different point of view?

My "bottom line" is that I grow very tired of unending wars. Not just the wars "our" governments create, but wars in this forum and everywhere else. Do we think we thrive through the actions of these "leaders" or through allowing our emotions to temper everything we say?

So why not try to act and behave better than these idiot war mongers? If we don't do this then we are simply following Albert Einstein's description of "insanity" as repeating the same things over and over again but expecting the results to be different.

I'd say, if political leaders are incapable of making peace instead of war we should dump them, as should all peace loving people in all countries; starting with Obama. These leaders only work for the money people who feel "subjugation" is a good thing. This is the enemy, not uneducated, frightened anti-gunners. Remember: Not everyone needs to be armed to create a safe society.

Gun control is only one topic. Just about everyone argues points that they know are futile in regards convincing people of the opposite. So what if I do it, too?
Next you'll be calling me a T-R-O-L-L.



Try using the quotation tools.


I don't know it but given the sheep protectionist mindset and my contempt for them why risk it?


I think you already said it in your last post. Before something in my reply to it ruffled your feathers and made you feel the need to distance yourself.


So avoid them.
This thread should have been started in PRR since it is certainly more political in nature than news.


It's fun to tease them.


Politicians are in it for themselves. Whatever we get are table scraps. No one worth a s**t wants to run for office so we get to pick through all the turds for the one we think stinks the least.


One feeds the other.



No one said they had to be but it should be the choice of the individual. Most people that are the victims of muggings and other similar attacks could have spared themselves just by practicing some situational awareness and not by looking like an easy score.

Quote:

So why not try to act and behave better than these idiot war mongers? If we don't do this then we are simply following Albert Einstein's description of "insanity" as repeating the same things over and over again but expecting the results to be different.

It's fun to tease them.

Thanks for telling me that; you had me fooled.