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MsV
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23 Mar 2016, 10:32 am

Thank you. I hoped this would be the one place where I could not see this event politicized and was wrong. Got a bit emotional (frustrated) so I'm sorry if it seemed harsh. I'm just tired of it. Tired of people hating each other, blaming each other, using tragedies for personal gain. So freaking sad and tired. Not only for Belgium, but for every country.



nurseangela
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23 Mar 2016, 10:40 am

I disagree. I respect the dead as much as anyone else, but terrorism is something that needs to be discussed openly. Discussing what happened and ways to stop terrorism from coming to America is just one of the topics that need to be on the table and talked about especially during an important election year.

Trump was brought up (again) by someone who is not an American, but I find it distasteful for our current president to always bring up gun control after every school shooting. Think about that (for Americans) before you go after Trump for wanting to keep America safe.


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MsV
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23 Mar 2016, 12:01 pm

When 9/11 happened our country stood in solidarity. Basic humanity. Is this too much to ask?

Oh and fyi I grew up in the US.



BenderRodriguez
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23 Mar 2016, 12:23 pm

MsV wrote:
Thank you. I hoped this would be the one place where I could not see this event politicized and was wrong. Got a bit emotional (frustrated) so I'm sorry if it seemed harsh. I'm just tired of it. Tired of people hating each other, blaming each other, using tragedies for personal gain. So freaking sad and tired. Not only for Belgium, but for every country.


I don't think you're harsh. I have family in Brussels and went beside myself yesterday trying to contact them. My sister and 5 year old nephew use the Maelbeek metro station every morning :(

After the attacks in Paris we all had to put up with weeks of incredible nastiness here on the forum so this time I guess I'll just take a break for a while, seeing how people use such tragedies as an excuse for spreading hate and fear or push their political agenda hits too close to home for me right now.

But thank you for posting this message and trying to bring back some common decency into this discussion. I wish you the best.


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MsV
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23 Mar 2016, 12:57 pm

I wish you the same and am happy to hear your loved ones are safe!



Tequila
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23 Mar 2016, 12:59 pm

I wonder what caused the attacks?

Was it:

1) Islam
2) Islam
3) Islam

I can't decide. I think it might be Islam.

#nomoreislam



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23 Mar 2016, 1:05 pm

Tequila wrote:
I wonder what caused the attacks?

Was it:

1) Islam
2) Islam
3) Islam

I can't decide. I think it might be Islam.

#nomoreislam


I hate to be cynical, but Tequila is correct. How often do you see attacks by other ideologies, especially on this scale?

Other religions have matured, whereas Islam is still in the dark ages thinking magic is real and killing those who don't agree.



nurseangela
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23 Mar 2016, 1:29 pm

MsV wrote:
When 9/11 happened our country stood in solidarity. Basic humanity. Is this too much to ask?

Oh and fyi I grew up in the US.


When 9/11 happened, I'm sure America was the talk of the world. Discussion of why a tragedy happened doesn't have to cease, the debate should always be respectful of everyone. However, someone did do this tragedy and is to blame. There is violence and hatred in the world and it all needs to be discussed or how is it to be put to rest? Ignoring a problem and pretending it doesn't exist never works - the problem is always there when you come back, except it's usually a lot worse.


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nurseangela
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23 Mar 2016, 1:41 pm

Another thing, I'm getting tired of other countries telling us here in American how we should behave and how we should conduct our business (elections, security, etc.). I don't get involved in Canada's problems, the UK's problems or anyone else's problems. I would like the same respect.


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Tequila
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23 Mar 2016, 1:46 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Another thing, I'm getting tired of other countries telling us here in American how we should behave and how we should conduct our business (elections, security, etc.). I don't get involved in Canada's problems, the UK's problems or anyone else's problems. I would like the same respect.


I wish your a***hole of a President would stop interfering in Britain's business (regarding the EU referendum) too.



MsV
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23 Mar 2016, 1:49 pm

In all of our human history, how many generals do you think sent their men into battle for purely religious reasons?

Now how many used religion as a veil for their actual reasons, i.e. power, land, money, natural resources?

Today, IS is not about Islam. They wouldn't kill other muslims if that was the case. The terrorists are not "good muslims", they drink, rape, kill women and children (not allowed in Islam).

Let us compare: the radical Westborough Church activists? Are they the standard to which all Catholics/Christians should be held? That's not what the pope would think... Again it's not about religion here. Their leader is a power hungry sociopath, as is the case with many cults/sects who use fear and a sense of entitlement to gain control of their followers.

England seperating from Europe by forming its own Church: obviously also so the King could divorce but partly a power play. The struggles in Northern Ireland - power and land. Netherlands (Protestant) VS Belgium (Catholic) back in the day: the same. Crusades: idem. Jerusalem: again. The events leading up to Srebrenica massacre - the genocides in Africa - Hitler: not about religion, just a convenient excuse to kill a whole lot of people to gain power. See a pattern?

Critical thinking is a good thing and shows that motives are rarely as straightforward as one would like to believe.

And, since I know this conversation will go there: the Koran quotes people use to point out how 'violent' Islam is - read the bible. There things written there are just as violent (mainly old testament).

I'm just saying that oversimplification is dangerous. The train of thinking that brought about the Holocaust and other mass genocides will not lead us to better outcomes this time around. And it makes 'us' no better than 'them'.

What I'm not (! !!) saying, is leave criminals unpunished! Those who break our laws, must be brought to justice. Those wanting to become citizens but commit crimes, can get a one way ticket back home. We do need better checks at the entry points for refugees and we need to limit assistance to those who actually need it. But we need everyone on board and to stand as one in order to accomplish this. We need to unite instead of alienate. And the best way to do that is through open and honest (unbiased) dialogue with the entire population.

Anyway, I probably won't change your minds. But maybe someone might give this a second thought.



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23 Mar 2016, 1:51 pm

MsV wrote:
Today, IS is not about Islam. They wouldn't kill other muslims if that was the case. The terrorists are not "good muslims", they drink, rape, kill women and children (not allowed in Islam).


I find it hard to believe you've actually read Islamic sources if you believe that's the case. The Quran and hadiths promote slavery, child rape, and murder. Muhammad killed Jewish tribes because they disagreed with him. He raped a child when she was nine. He killed people that mocked him.

Also, Muslims kill over Muslims for sectarian reasons, or because they're not devout enough, or because they're women or gay people and they've offended the Sharia moral code, or any number of other reasons.

Jihadists don't generally drink either - you're right about that not being allowed in Islam.

These terrorists are not making it up - they can quote scripture to back up their atrocities.



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23 Mar 2016, 1:54 pm

Yep....you definitely know your history :D

I agree. I don't believe the Kurds (Muslim) would think that the people of ISIS were "good Muslims."

I also agree that there's lots of reactionary thought emanating from the paranoia which terrorism causes. We have to try to stem that reactionary thought, and think objectively.

Yes, the extremist groups have to be monitored CLOSELY.

But we must not assume that every Muslim adheres to the ideology of ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc.



Tequila
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23 Mar 2016, 1:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....you definitely know your history :D


Put it this way, if Islam vanished as a religion tomorrow, I would hold a week-long street party. For starters.



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23 Mar 2016, 2:02 pm

Islam has a storied history.

Certain factions of Islam have ruined the image of Islam.



Tequila
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23 Mar 2016, 2:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Certain factions of Islam have ruined the image of Islam.


Do you not think Muhammad ruined the image of Islam?

He is the problem after all.