US doctors call for universal healthcare

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If it was possible then someone would build hospitals for these millions of working class people who don't have health insurance because there are trillions of dollars to be made by reaching these customers.

The government is restricting how many hospitals can be built,so naturally only the richer can afford these limited resources.

in the rest of the west, governments provide all their citizens with health care services without preconditions of wealth, and it is not controversial in the least. only in America do we use it as a middle class carrot and working class stick.

If the government is in charge of paying for healthcare they can force people to exercise and eat certain foods to keep costs down. This happened in 1984 with Winston Smith being forced to exercise by the telescreen.

Recently the government was forced to admit that the food pyramid was wrong, it had the largest portion devoted to bread and other carbs, if everyone had been forced to follow this over the last sixty or so years everyone would have been putting on weight, then the government would have forced everyone to exercise more,even though they were forcing everyone to eat more carbs.


This hasn't happened anywhere yet but it's possible.

insurance companies are just as capable of all those things. in Canada they don't make their citizens exercise. but other nations do tax bad foods.

You know the most of the 45% cannot afford to pay Federal Taxes after paying their state and local taxes.
If you're below a certain income after paying state and local taxes, you are exempt for federal taxes.

Also the super rich make up a good portion of the 45% who don't pay Federal Taxes are any taxes for that matter.
This includes Warren Buffet, who pays less than 10% of his income in Federal Taxes, while his secretary pays almost 23%.

Insurance companies have been demanding complete deregulation of the healthcare at every level and Federal Money.

Also the poorest states also are the states with the most amount of people on medicad (used to be uninsured), and the least amount of jobs and education.

The state are:

Texas
Oklahoma
Alabama
Mississippi
Tennessee
Louisiana
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
North Carolina
Virgina

See a pattern? The poorest states in the country are the Traditional South


The states that receive more in Federal money than they pay in Federal Taxes are in the Traditional South, Great Plains, and Alaska.
Same goes for having the most residents on Federal and State programs and State governments dependent on Federal Aid.
These states are known as the Dependent States.

The Great Lake States, The North East States, the Western States and Hawaii are known as Donor States as they pay more in Federal Taxes than they get back in Federal Funds, essentially funding the Dependent States.


The Dependent states also pay the most in healthcare costs and default on payments of all sorts.


https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-l ... ment/2700/



So in the end the U.S. is going to wind up with full deregulated healthcare that is shareholder driven for profits or Federalized Healthcare.

Would you rather be at mercy of shareholders, who want growing profits year after year at all costs or the federal government?

Bear in mind that Healthcare executives already make millions each year and millions more in bonus, while middle tier employers make 80k - to 500k+.
Lower tier are lucky to make 40k at most insurance companies.

Yes I know people who work at healthcare companies.

Insurance companies do offer incentives for exercising but I don't think they force anyone to.
I would like to see which foods Canada is penalising because opinions vary on whether red meat,eggs and cheese are actually bad for you.

People are 'at the mercy' of food company share holders but food is cheap!
Executives make crazy money but it doesn't affect prices because their wages are a minute fraction of the money that goes through the company.
You can guarantee that food company executives get paid just as well.

Food isn't even comparable.

If you want to eat healthy nutritious foods such as produce, whole grains, etc... that are certified to be the real thing, then you are going to be paying a very big portion of your income (States and Federal Government support the price structure to keep the farmers of them profitable).
It's also really expensive to produce them healthy nutritious foods, because they are forced to use actual American labor and cannot use industrial products on the food.

most fatty foods, junk foods, pop, ready to eat food (highly processed and full of industrial chemicals), sugary food and/or any cheaply food is cheap because it heavily subsidized by the states and federal government.

Also the major meat producing and packing industry uses practically all illegal/slave labor to eliminate all costs.
This illegal/slave labor is imported from Mexico and Central America and are paid a few dollars each month if that.
There are very few actual Americans working in the meat producing and packing industry, because if they hired Americans, they'd have to charge a much higher price to maintain their current profit margins.
They also put the children of the illegal/slave labor to work too instead of sending them to school.

Shareholders and Wall Street have been pressuring the meat producing and packing industry to make higher profits and cut costs even further.

The major agribusiness that farm the majority of the produce, use illegal/slave labor imported from Mexico and Central America.
They literally pay them a few dollars each month and if they are feeling generous they get indoor plumbing.
They also put the children of the illegal/slave labor to work too instead of sending them to school.

Shareholders and Wall Street have been pressuring the big agribusiness to make higher profits and cut costs even further.

There are stricter regulations on small farms and independent farms that there is on big agribusiness.

Those illegal/slave labor that's imported from Mexico and Central America are also employed in Fast Food, hospitality, Hotel/Motel, and many other low wage industries.

In all these industries they are lucky to make $50 a year, including the food and agribusinesses.

So do you want illegal/slave labor imported from Mexico and Central America to take all the healthcare jobs too?
Would you be happy with your Doctor and medical staff being an illegal/slave laborer from South of the Border?

I mean using the same illegal/slave labor imported from South of the border in the healthcare industry would cut costs to practically nothing and you would see insurance companies report record profits year after year.
Though the quality of healthcare would be worse than it currently is in half the country.

Using cheap labor does affect the bottom line but there are other industries that are inexpensive on the free market, the USA was famous for having cheap telephone bills in the 70's to the 00's whereas the UK only had a government owned telecoms company and was very expensive.

In countries where food production is government controlled there have always been huge lines to wait in to get basic food,
The same goes for healthcare, in the UK people often die before they can get an operation because they have to wait so long

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/359265.stm.


If the government didn't restrict the building of new hospitals, health costs would go down so much that no one would be interested in government paying for all the healthcare.

You do know the reason why Reagan revoked it's government charter and broke up AT&T in 1982?
Because deregulation and the free market would provide better on phone and telecommunication service and a much lower prices.

Instead prices increased at higher rate than when they were on a government charter and one government regulated monopoly.

We were promised that TELECOM, Cable and internet provider deregulation at the end of the 1990s, would lead to much cheaper prices.

Instead they were allowed to buy each other out creating the massive oligopoly we have with 5 ISPs left, 4 Telecoms (all of which are ISPs), and 5 Cable companies left (all of which are ISPs).

They have cornered the market and driven up prices exponentially on Cell Phone service, Data packages, Internet service, and Cable because of a lack of regulation and competition.

They also have the power to blacklist you as well, seeing to it you never get service again in the Telecom industry.
Comcast requires Social Security numbers for new customers now.
If you move into a place, who's former resident owes Comcast money, they will deny you service until you pay the bill.

The major Telecoms are now asking the U.S. Government to buy the landline operations off of them, because it doesn't meet their profit margins to operate the landline systems (half the country is still dependent on them as is most businesses).


As for healthcare in the U.S. by 2009, 45,000 Americans died each year because they were deemed uninsurable by the insurance companies or couldn't afford the premiums.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-h ... W520090917
Many more die because because they cannot afford copays or due to insurance denying their medical care due to profit reasons.

My own mother was deemed uninsurable by all private insurers in Ohio due to all her health issues, because it would cost them too much to have her on their rolls.
Her employer's insurance won't even cover her for the same reasons.
She has to use a limited form of Medicad, which she had to fight tooth and nail to get on it due to Ohio refusing to expanding Medicad and having strict requirements.

Even then most of her medications aren't covered, nor are the specialists and hospital visits.


As for hospitals, the states regulate the building of hospitals.
In Michigan you have to show there is a need for the hospital and the amount of patients who need a new hospital to get the OK to build one.

Right now in the U.S. there is a huge shortage of Doctors, Specialists, Nurses, and medical staff leaving most hospitals understaffed nationwide.
Many hospitals don't have the money to upgrade their equipment or keep the hospitals up to regulation.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... ge/459741/
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/pa ... he-elderly
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142007.htm
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -patients/

Nearly all hospitals in the U.S. are owned by publicly traded companies who have shareholders.
By law the shareholders interests come first.


There is always going to be people who die in the medical system because of how the medical system works.
There is no perfect system with unlimited resources.

Hell the 3rd leading death in the U.S. is due to medical complications of all sorts (including pharmacy mistakes) in 2016, at the toll of 250,000 deaths.
it was announced last week.

^^^yet a working majority of amuuricans still say "rah rah we're number 1 rah rah" yeh, #1 in bankruptcies filed each year from ruinous medical costs, at least until PPACA kicked in.

To be fair most hospitals will close due to a lack of staff before the Federal Government forces a single payer system.

by dint of the powers that be that have mandated our crappy health care system [crappy for the vast majority of the 99%], it is a judgment by those PTB that most of us are basically surplus eaters who can just suffer and die. why won't more people wake up?

I've wrestled with this a lot of times. I consider myself right of center politically. I can see where the people against universal healthcare say where it could be too much, the government spends too much and takes in not enough. I agree with that. However, even so, if one needs healthcare, he or she should not worry how they will pay for it, they should get it without that hanging over their head. It is a monumental task.

Obamacare is a disaster, IMHO, although one good came of it, at least insurance companies cannot deny you with a prior condition, I'll give it that.

I would have like to try the idea that Signapore (and John McCain) does where people who need it get like $5000 a year to spend on insurance for healthcare. I'd rather try free market ideas first, if that fails, then we can give universal healthcare a try, I'm open to that too. Also, no bean counter death panels, the treatment options, including experimental, should be up to the doctor and patient (or family, next of kin) to decide. Or even not to, let the patient or next of kin decide wen it is it time to let go.

I do understand how one can be against it until one needs or a loved one does. I can see all sides of the issue but if one needs healthcare, they should not have to worry how to pay for it, just get it. I know in some universal systems, they always get what they need, the doctor fills out a slip and turns it over to the government and then gets paid. I think Norway is like that.

This is something we all need to work on. I have to follow my own thoughts and leave the conservative side on this one.

Well, there is a point in what you said, I have a friend in Sweden and his parents are middle class but not worrying about payin for healthcare and some other things, they can afford a new Volvo and a Mercedes Benz.

I often said that pure socialism/communism, left to their own devices, will destroy itself in trying to make everyone the same. On the other hand, I've said, that pure capitalism, left to its own devices, would destroy itself as well as appealing to the lowest common denominator such as labor price or cost. Sometimes lowest costs isn't a good thing and when you pay low wages, you don'r get consumers.

I think you need a mix to keep each of them honest as well as bring out the best of both systems and level out the worst of both. We need to keep a lot of focus on individuality but remember there are things we need to focus on as a collective to have a civil society. It's up to each society to find that balance, it isn't always easy, but needs to be figured out.

AFAIC if they can send a man to the GD moon they can fix our health care financing system at least. but too many high muckety-mucks are addicted to waste/fraud/abuse which 1]constitute $700+ billion of present-day health care spending, and 2] which is quite enough to fund the health care needs of that portion of the working class [the majority] presently priced out of health care.