Brexit 2016

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Good luck amending the constitution, I am pretty sure states are not going to ratify an amendment that disenfranchises them. I think 'get over it' is probably more practical advice.

Voter fraud happens, saying there is none is impossible as that would be proving a negative. Is it possible? Then it happens and whatever loopholes should be closed, there really is no reason why shouldn't have strict voter id as the arguments are nonsensical. It disenfranchises minorities, how's that? Last I checked they can go and get an ID just the same as me.

If you're from Middle America then you should be pretty aware of the disconnect from progressive coastal elitists and the middle of the country. No, Democrats have not listened to what voters want and you trying to relay that with my comment about mob rule versus the electoral college doesn't apply. The electoral college has a purpose and it fulfilled that purpose.

And what is that you want to report there? The breeding comment? Are you going to tell me that Democrats don't stake their electoral strategy and future on massive demographic change? Is it not true? Were you thinking you could twist that into some racist statement? No, what the Democrats are doing is racist and I make that clear.

Trump has always fancied himself as an outsider, he's punched those elitists in the face and made them cry. What's not to like?

What are you talking about 'they can't get the same ID'? It's such a nonsense argument that it disenfranchises voters, it disenfranchises the fraudsters and any other problems are fixable or will take care of themselves. Democrats have been engaging in fraud for over 50 years, you know JFK didn't actually win in 1960 right?

If you detect any smugness then I have earned it for being consistently right and while everybody else has been wrong, I do not really care after how disgusting I have been treated by some.

I am not disconnect from the place I was born, I was forced to move as I am not some privileged farm kid but rather someone that grew up in one these abandoned rustbelt hellholes where there has been future for mine or parents entire lives. I saw what was coming and I said as much, Michael Moore also the same, what did you see? You didn't think it was going to happen or did you not want to believe it?

Hillary ran up the score in a few place, she did not win broad geographic support needed to win the electoral college and again the popular vote again is meaningless. Hillary if she was ever going to win needed to heed the voters she needed to win the election and she did not, that is how our political system is designed to work.

And what would you report about that comment? It is an opinion I am free to have and after all the times people have thrown around Nazi and KKK around I really don't see what the point of your threat.

accidental skip

I don't see what you are saying as proving there was no voter fraud because 12 states did whatever. I don't see there being any legitimate reason to oppose voter IDs, I see no reason it places an undue burden on anyone. Other forms of fraud should be pursued too.

The JFK mention was just illustrate how long fraud has been going on, it's not an obscure conspiracy theory and is pretty widely known historically. Nixon did not challenge the election for the good of the country, what a thought

I was responding to you mentioning something about being out of touch in Arizona where I am not from, I lived in a real city and was not privileged to have an idylic small town upbringing. I grew up in s**t neighborhoods going to terrible schools with no opportunity or future, I am an internal migrant who has been forced from his home. I said farm kid because farming is about the only thing I think of when I think of Iowa.

Familiarize yourself with federalism and the history of the United States, it's not arbitrary or sudden but rather deliberately how our founders intended it. This is not centralized unitary state, it a federal democratic republic and Hillary did not win in enough places which is necessary under our constitution to win.

The context of what I said about the Democrats was their not listening to voters and their false paternalism masking the fact that they are the actual oppressors. I am not a Republican, I strongly supported Trump but also the Clintons have always been enemy #1 having known of their wickedness all my life. There was nothing on this earth that could convinced me to vote for Hillary and I was not alone in these feelings, Democrats should kick themselves for letting their party and nominating process become so corrupted that such a unacceptable candidate like Hillary would receive the nomination. I always had 100% confidence in defeating Hillary and was warning people of such for years, she had no business being where she was at which is why she limited her appearances so much and never took questions. Democrats actually did have a strong candidate in Jim Webb the 'progressive' national party found him unacceptably conservative for not playing the identity politics game and for actually trying to appeal to working class white voters which are necessary to win any election.

Can you stop breaking up my posts like that, are you doing it to annoy me? Do you enjoy sitting there formatting your post to do that?

There is proof the voter fraud that voter fraud happened but we have secret ballots so holding people accountable is pretty hard, there is massive fraud when it comes to absentee ballots. Something like half the precincts in Detroit had machines that tabulated more voters than ballots, lots and lots of funny business happens. Big city democrats have been perpetrating fraud for decades, the 1960 election was decided fraud in Chicago under Mayor Daley's watch. Not baseless, part of history, maybe ask your professor.

It's just common sense it has never stopped since it ha worked and as we can see the corruption out of Chicago is still palpable. I saw tentacles of it first hand up in Milwaukee which has serious issues with it as well. I bring up undue burden because that is the main argument against combating voter fraud, that it somehow specifically targets minority voters which is such a lie. Do you support voter ID, do you think loopholes that allow fraud should be closed? If you agree with that then what are you arguing about?

I'm out of touch and called the election better than any of the 'data driven' punditry, this is what I mean about progressives being so dogmatic. They cannot allow disagreement nor can they compromise because they believe themselves morally superior and scientifically correct, it's a authoritarian mindset. You make an ignorant comment about Arizona and where I'm from so I return it in kind, Trump won Iowa and won the election so the evidence is on my side. Did you not see it coming? I had no choice but to move from the city of my birth because of a decades long economic depression, I moved 1600 miles across the country thus internal migrant. So... scoreboard!

What is ugly about it? Slavery was not a unique institution, it had exist since the dawn of man up and still does in other forms/other countries. It was wrong and the most deadly war in American history is what ended it. I feel no guilt for something I did not partake in, what the specific issues were at the time are irrelevant to the fact that the purpose was to preserve state soveirgnty which is the basis of our country. I do not subscribe to this idea that because the founders had slaves that everything they believed and stood should no longer be valued, if California and New York decided our elections then there would be no reason for other states to not secede.

Now I think changes to our system aren't a bad idea but the president will never be elected by the popular vote. I like the idea of radically expanding congress so districts do not exceed 70k repealing the 17th amendment so the senate can represent that states as it was originally intended, it makes no sense for the senate to be a supercongress. You don't have to radically expand that much or repeal the 17th, at the very least it should be expanded to the point that districts are evenly populated. Donald Trump won the election that way the rules required, trying to say Trump is illegitimate because of it is wrong and if the election was decided by the popular vote then the campaign would of looked a lot different so what the result actually was is irrelevant in that scenario. Democrats if they want to win elections need to try to appeal to the middle of the country or else they will continue to lose.

The bottom line is that those who support Trump having won on less of the popular vote are not great believers in democracy.

The 'people' who voted for brexit had no idea what they were actually voting for.

We still haven't heard the tories plan for brexit.

You cannot compare the SNP and UKIP, as the SNP only stand in Scotland and not UK-wide.
The SNP are the most popular party in Scotland by a long way, they are a decent bunch who do a good job with what we have, I am a member because they are the vehicle for regaining full control of our country from the worthless fools in westminster.

England is in the hands of fascists, it's becoming a lost cause and we will not be dragged down with them.

Democracy is about rule of law, changing the law ex post facto because you lost is not democratic. The rule of the game was to collect 270 electoral college votes and Hillary did not do that.

How many MPs should UKIP have? 3.8 million votes for 1 seat while the SNP gets 56 MPs with less than half of that, is that not a democracy by your definition?

I believe in self determination but it seems kind of silly on the part of Scotland to think switching their allegiance to Brussels instead of Westminster is somehow independence but I digress. Will you still want to separate from UK when the EU doesn't exist?

I have zero interest in UKIP, they got very few votes in Scotland and we chased that racist fargage into a pub when he tried to spew his crap up here.

The EU is very useful for trade deals, it has other uses but trade is number one.

We will rule Scotland from Scotland, as it should be, an equal partner in Europe.

It's in the EU's interests to keep Scotland close and sweet, we hold all the cards, look up Europe's oil and gas reserves, not to mention our fishing waters. We are spoiled for energy when you throw in our Wind Farms, Hydro and new ocean current technology.

We don't need westminster, nor do we want them.

The UK is done and over, it's been kept on life support by Scotland's oil mostly, we will fund English terrorism no more.

The UK may need to kick us out to activate Brexit, as it's a Union and as an equal nation we have a say.

We will have our independence and without a shot being fired, or a right wing nutter killing an MP in the street.

Also, we tell Trump to piss off, that mental orange freak has tweeted 53 times about scottish wind farms opposite his golf course, we're gonnae dig it up and build a mosque.

Hoping for a 2018 indyref2, it's coming and there is nothing you can do, be nice and we might liberate you from Trump LOL.

You don't think the UK can negotiate trade deals and I guess you don't think Scotland can do it independently either so you'd prefer a supernational political union where your interest would be be insignificant do it? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you think Scotland needs more refugees? Do you think Scotland's interests fall in line with the whole of Europe? I don't really understand the reasoning. I think it more amounts to people wanting open borders which are no longer viable, you can blame Merkel for unilaterally ruining it for everyone. If you wanted true independence then it would make more sense but it's not really independence if your surrender soveirgnty to the EU.

I'm not meaning this in a mean way, but I don't think you understand what the EU is and the massive benefits it offers.
We have taken in many refugees, we even flew them from Syria to Scotland, our nation thrives on diversity.
If the EU run everything and are all powerful then why do we have elections in the member states?
Why didn't Merkel just dip into the Norwegian Oil Fund to bail Greece out?
Examine Norway and their membership.

My favourite bargaining chip is this, we control access to the North Atlantic, we just need to wink in Russia's direction.

'Hi Vlad, you are a lovely man compared to that joke the yanks have elected, would you like to rent a wee island from us for a naval base?'

If Scotland is such a burden on the UK, why don't the tories and labour want to let us go?

Europe is cool, the EU is not perfect but throwing your toys out the pram is not going to help, England keeps electing horrible selfish people, Europe doesn't want to work with these people, brexit is going to be awful.