Milo resigns from Breitbart over underage sex comments

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EzraS
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23 Feb 2017, 5:01 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Even so, I doubt they make up half of the film industry.


I have a feeling he meant half of Hollywood figuratively, rather than literally. As in conveying that it's a significant actual problem. I don't quite get parents like you a cyberdad being so dismissive regarding child abuse. But maybe that's part of liberalism and why something like NAMBLA is trying to gain tolerance and acceptance through them.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm hardly an expert on gay culture, but persons who are trans are not gay, but feel that they're gender identity is different from their physical gender they had been born with.


I wasn't talking about trans. I was replying to you saying conservatives think gay men are child molesters. And said that adult with youth relationships, as they existed in ancient Greece, is a thing within gay male culture. I think there's more to this stuff than just it being right-winger phobia.



EzraS
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23 Feb 2017, 5:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What does his employment status have to do with what he's experienced and witnessed first hand? Plus there are other former child actors who back up his testimony. But apparently to you the testimony of rape victims is only as good as their level of fame and net worth.

But you posted earlier that you can't trust the testimony of Hollywood celebrities in another thread?


I had to track that down. I don't think someone recounting that they were raped as a child which was corroborated by a costar who was also raped and other former child actors talking about being raped - is in the same context as Tom Arnold claiming he is the only person who has secret tapes of a TV show that he appeared on once. My remark had to do with him being one of dozens of celebrity contestants over a span of 15 years, who had no part in the production aspects of the show. As far as I know, none of the other hundreds of contestants have corroborated his claim.



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23 Feb 2017, 6:18 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even so, I doubt they make up half of the film industry.


I have a feeling he meant half of Hollywood figuratively, rather than literally. As in conveying that it's a significant actual problem. I don't quite get parents like you a cyberdad being so dismissive regarding child abuse. But maybe that's part of liberalism and why something like NAMBLA is trying to gain tolerance and acceptance through them.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm hardly an expert on gay culture, but persons who are trans are not gay, but feel that they're gender identity is different from their physical gender they had been born with.


I wasn't talking about trans. I was replying to you saying conservatives think gay men are child molesters. And said that adult with youth relationships, as they existed in ancient Greece, is a thing within gay male culture. I think there's more to this stuff than just it being right-winger phobia.


I am not dismissive of child sexual abuse. But I happen to know the right has a chubby for taking down Hollywood for the liberal politics and sympathy for racial and sexual minorities there, and that is what I am critical of.
And seriously, nobody is sympathetic to a group as disgusting as NAMBLA, except for pedophiles.
What evidence is there that gay adults are sexually interested in youths just because that was popular in ancient Greece? With the exception of gay pedophiles (and yes, there are such persons, as there are straight pedophiles), the notion that gay men commonly want to get with boys is the fevered imaginings of homophobic conservatives. What evidence is there really that gay adults want to reenact ancient Greek culture?


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EzraS
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23 Feb 2017, 7:58 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even so, I doubt they make up half of the film industry.


I have a feeling he meant half of Hollywood figuratively, rather than literally. As in conveying that it's a significant actual problem. I don't quite get parents like you a cyberdad being so dismissive regarding child abuse. But maybe that's part of liberalism and why something like NAMBLA is trying to gain tolerance and acceptance through them.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm hardly an expert on gay culture, but persons who are trans are not gay, but feel that they're gender identity is different from their physical gender they had been born with.


I wasn't talking about trans. I was replying to you saying conservatives think gay men are child molesters. And said that adult with youth relationships, as they existed in ancient Greece, is a thing within gay male culture. I think there's more to this stuff than just it being right-winger phobia.


I am not dismissive of child sexual abuse. But I happen to know the right has a chubby for taking down Hollywood for the liberal politics and sympathy for racial and sexual minorities there, and that is what I am critical of.
And seriously, nobody is sympathetic to a group as disgusting as NAMBLA, except for pedophiles.
What evidence is there that gay adults are sexually interested in youths just because that was popular in ancient Greece? With the exception of gay pedophiles (and yes, there are such persons, as there are straight pedophiles), the notion that gay men commonly want to get with boys is the fevered imaginings of homophobic conservatives. What evidence is there really that gay adults want to reenact ancient Greek culture?


But obviously pedophilia is a problem in Hollywood as opposed to being non-existent. I don't know what evidence there is regarding adult + youth in gay male culture, but I believe I've heard similar to what Milo was saying. And I mean from from the gay side, not the conservative side. But just as long as the liberal leftist whatever don't decide that this is the next phase in tolerance evolution, then I'm not going to be overly concerned about it.



Last edited by EzraS on 23 Feb 2017, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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23 Feb 2017, 8:07 am

Pedophilia is a problem throughout our society. There's always a certain percentage of people in any city or town who are attracted to underage people.

There are people who might not tolerate pedophilia, per se, but who tolerate more sexual exploration than the average person--and hence more toleration of the espousal of sexual acts, in general, which most people would find "perverted."

Hence, perhaps, a tacit toleration of pedophilia, without an explicit toleration.



Kraichgauer
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23 Feb 2017, 4:36 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even so, I doubt they make up half of the film industry.


I have a feeling he meant half of Hollywood figuratively, rather than literally. As in conveying that it's a significant actual problem. I don't quite get parents like you a cyberdad being so dismissive regarding child abuse. But maybe that's part of liberalism and why something like NAMBLA is trying to gain tolerance and acceptance through them.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm hardly an expert on gay culture, but persons who are trans are not gay, but feel that they're gender identity is different from their physical gender they had been born with.


I wasn't talking about trans. I was replying to you saying conservatives think gay men are child molesters. And said that adult with youth relationships, as they existed in ancient Greece, is a thing within gay male culture. I think there's more to this stuff than just it being right-winger phobia.


I am not dismissive of child sexual abuse. But I happen to know the right has a chubby for taking down Hollywood for the liberal politics and sympathy for racial and sexual minorities there, and that is what I am critical of.
And seriously, nobody is sympathetic to a group as disgusting as NAMBLA, except for pedophiles.
What evidence is there that gay adults are sexually interested in youths just because that was popular in ancient Greece? With the exception of gay pedophiles (and yes, there are such persons, as there are straight pedophiles), the notion that gay men commonly want to get with boys is the fevered imaginings of homophobic conservatives. What evidence is there really that gay adults want to reenact ancient Greek culture?


But obviously pedophilia is a problem in Hollywood as opposed to being non-existent. I don't know what evidence there is regarding adult + youth in gay male culture, but I believe I've heard similar to what Milo was saying. And I mean from from the gay side, not the conservative side. But just as long as the liberal leftist whatever don't decide that this is the next phase in tolerance evolution, then I'm not going to be overly concerned about it.


As we are a culture of sexual consent, and as children can not consent to sex, ergo, pedophilia will never become tolerated by mainstream America.
And sure, there is child sex abuse in Hollywood. But it's also common in institutional religion, and not just Catholicism. But you don't hear the right ranting and raving about organized religion being a hotbed of pedophilia. Therein lies the right's pretext for pedophilia in their obsession with damning the movie industry, with all it's liberalism and tolerance.


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cyberdad
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23 Feb 2017, 7:52 pm

EzraS wrote:
My remark had to do with him being one of dozens of celebrity contestants over a span of 15 years, who had no part in the production aspects of the show. As far as I know, none of the other hundreds of contestants have corroborated his claim.

Hollywood celebrities are managed as to whom they can socialise/associate with. Roman Polanski and other producers are powerful people with huge influence. Many in the industry probably don't want to rock the boat.

Bill Cosby is a good example. Almost nobody in the African American community is willing to publicly denounce him due to the esteem he holds in their community. It is somewhat cringeworthy to see people like Whoopie Goldberg defend him but I doubt that means she promotes or defends rape or pedophilia.



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23 Feb 2017, 8:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My remark had to do with him being one of dozens of celebrity contestants over a span of 15 years, who had no part in the production aspects of the show. As far as I know, none of the other hundreds of contestants have corroborated his claim.

Hollywood celebrities are managed as to whom they can socialise/associate with. Roman Polanski and other producers are powerful people with huge influence. Many in the industry probably don't want to rock the boat.

Bill Cosby is a good example. Almost nobody in the African American community is willing to publicly denounce him due to the esteem he holds in their community. It is somewhat cringeworthy to see people like Whoopie Goldberg defend him but I doubt that means she promotes or defends rape or pedophilia.


Larry Wilmore, who used to host the former Nightly Show is one African American who has been very vocal of his condemnation of Cosby, referring to him as "You monster!"


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23 Feb 2017, 10:17 pm

There have been a lot of changes in age of consent laws. It's also important the age at which people can get married, since sex inside of a marriage is legally protected. Dowries still exist in rural USA, you can be sure of that. I think that we have to protect children, and writing a simple law to do that would be difficult. When I was 18 and 19, I knew 17 year olds who had more maturity than plenty of 21 year old people. I know several people who became emancipated minors, in fact.

However, if you have to make a simple law, I think the 18 year old limit with a few years of Romeo/Juliet clause for all ages makes sense. I don't remember ever not having an intense interest in my penis, and the bathing suit areas of others. I was never exploited, though. As an adult, I have to support laws to protect people who might otherwise be exploited, even if my own experience reveals some problems with our current approach.

I think it boils down to seeing children as property in a broad sense, or as people with less developed agency but all the fundamental rights of real people. Society holds some of their rights in trust, delegating their protection to the parents, in my conception. However, a lot of arguments about molestation and even rape turn into "what if it happened to YOUR sister, YOUR child, YOUR mother?" and I can't overlook the way some people only use that possessive language. Everyone uses it sometimes, but conservative voices use it exclusively and it is indeed a traditional view to see children and women as property.

Oh yeah, that related to Milo. He treats people as objects, so I don't really value his estimation of anyone. Allen Ginsburg also sat on the board of NAMBLA. People's attitudes are often shaped more by their experience than from a realistic view of human nature overall. I think it's fine to reject Milo based on what he said, but the fact that polygamists use their fake marriages to avoid prosecution must be addressed. However, they are right wing darlings as we see from Waco.


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23 Feb 2017, 10:47 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
There have been a lot of changes in age of consent laws. It's also important the age at which people can get married, since sex inside of a marriage is legally protected. Dowries still exist in rural USA, you can be sure of that. I think that we have to protect children, and writing a simple law to do that would be difficult. When I was 18 and 19, I knew 17 year olds who had more maturity than plenty of 21 year old people. I know several people who became emancipated minors, in fact.

However, if you have to make a simple law, I think the 18 year old limit with a few years of Romeo/Juliet clause for all ages makes sense. I don't remember ever not having an intense interest in my penis, and the bathing suit areas of others. I was never exploited, though. As an adult, I have to support laws to protect people who might otherwise be exploited, even if my own experience reveals some problems with our current approach.

I think it boils down to seeing children as property in a broad sense, or as people with less developed agency but all the fundamental rights of real people. Society holds some of their rights in trust, delegating their protection to the parents, in my conception. However, a lot of arguments about molestation and even rape turn into "what if it happened to YOUR sister, YOUR child, YOUR mother?" and I can't overlook the way some people only use that possessive language. Everyone uses it sometimes, but conservative voices use it exclusively and it is indeed a traditional view to see children and women as property.

Oh yeah, that related to Milo. He treats people as objects, so I don't really value his estimation of anyone. Allen Ginsburg also sat on the board of NAMBLA. People's attitudes are often shaped more by their experience than from a realistic view of human nature overall. I think it's fine to reject Milo based on what he said, but the fact that polygamists use their fake marriages to avoid prosecution must be addressed. However, they are right wing darlings as we see from Waco.



While Allen Ginsberg had joined NAMBLA, he was living proof that gays as well as straights had mistaken pedophilia for homosexuality. He seems to have believed that organization also represented gays. Plus, when he talked about "boys," he was talking about those in their late teens, not children. Unfortunately, his membership is a black mark on his name.


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24 Feb 2017, 4:27 am

marshall wrote:
It's weird how conservatives are most upset over that commentary rather than things he has said that are much more offensive in my mind.


He was useful to them before, provoking liberals to act in illiberal ways in public, plus he wasn't really connected to any of them, so it was a win/win situation. His CPAC invitation changed everything, which is why he was taken out from the right before he could be solidly tied to mainstream conservatism. That, and I think a lot of people on the right really did take most of the more outlandish things he was saying as trolling, part of his "offend the left for fun and profit" shtick.


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24 Feb 2017, 4:52 am

Dox47 wrote:
marshall wrote:
It's weird how conservatives are most upset over that commentary rather than things he has said that are much more offensive in my mind.


He was useful to them before, provoking liberals to act in illiberal ways in public, plus he wasn't really connected to any of them, so it was a win/win situation. His CPAC invitation changed everything, which is why he was taken out from the right before he could be solidly tied to mainstream conservatism. That, and I think a lot of people on the right really did take most of the more outlandish things he was saying as trolling, part of his "offend the left for fun and profit" shtick.


Sounds like Ernst Rohm



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24 Feb 2017, 8:31 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sounds like Ernst Rohm


Another Nazi, right?



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24 Feb 2017, 8:35 am

It should be noted that Ernst Rohm was killed by Hitler about 1934, when he found out that the SA outlived its purpose.



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24 Feb 2017, 10:12 am

All this talk about Nazis has caused me to rethink fascism. I'm getting on board with the idea that it happens on both left and right, and should really be on a separate axis.

If you know about the structure of the Nazi party, the plan was to gradually kill everyone except the Death Head SS, although of course they didn't make that part public. Some of their plans were also so darn weird that the Nuremburg court excluded a lot of it out of concern that it would confuse the trial process. Having observed some court cases involving magicians, I have to conclude that they had a point.

Getting away from calling everyone on the right or everyone on the left Nazis is a good plan. Stop using the term so much and reserve it for cases where it really fits well, like this one.


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24 Feb 2017, 10:51 am

Jacoby wrote:
Lets some some consistency on this maybe

George Takei, Lena Dunham, Roman Polanski, probably half of Hollywood all pedophiles/pedophile apologists


Add eve Ensler - the section of the Vagina Monologues titled "The Little Coochie Snorcher that could" chronicled the lesbian rape of an underage girl - apparently finished off with the line "If it was a rape, it was a good rape".

Add MAry Koss's erasure of male victims of female perps, and Mike Kimmells victim-blaming of the guys...

Not that I'm noticing possible hypocrisy or anything...