"House of Representatives pull health care bill"

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LoveNotHate
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25 Mar 2017, 11:37 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
There's only one of two options now
1. Medicare for everybody
2. Everyone loses coverage
option 1 would be the sensible choice, except for the fact NOBODY in Washington has any kind of common sense, never did have any common sense, and never will have any common sense.

Obama went on tv and said we can't have option 1, because "Medicare is a ticking time bomb".

Using GAPP accounting, according to the US Treasury, the Medicare unfunded liability is 27B (billion).
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

That means based on projected tax revenue, and budgeting, we are short 27B of what we have promised.

Medicare is expected to be insolvent in 11 years, and quickly downhill from there.



the_phoenix
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26 Mar 2017, 12:10 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
Thank you, Kraichgauer,

for inspiring me to post one of my favorite Reagan quotes:

Image

...


History shows man is hardly good. There's something wrong in human nature; call it original sin if you like.
And sure, what is right will eventually prevail - - that's why Obamacare still stands.


Yes, there is original sin.

And that said, thank you for inspiring me to post a quote from Ronald Reagan's inaugural address from 1981:

"We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we’re in a time when there are not heroes, they just don’t know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates. Others, a handful in number, produce enough food to feed all of us and then the world beyond. You meet heroes across a counter, and they’re on both sides of that counter. There are entrepreneurs with faith in themselves and faith in an idea who create new jobs, new wealth and opportunity. They’re individuals and families whose taxes support the government and whose voluntary gifts support church, charity, culture, art, and education. Their patriotism is quiet, but deep. Their values sustain our national life."

As for Obamacare, well, as Reagan predicted that "the march of freedom and democracy" would "leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people," I feel safe in predicting the same fate of winding up on the ash heap of history for Obamacare, which is based on Marxist-Leninist principles.



Kraichgauer
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26 Mar 2017, 1:17 am

the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
Thank you, Kraichgauer,

for inspiring me to post one of my favorite Reagan quotes:

Image

...


History shows man is hardly good. There's something wrong in human nature; call it original sin if you like.
And sure, what is right will eventually prevail - - that's why Obamacare still stands.


Yes, there is original sin.

And that said, thank you for inspiring me to post a quote from Ronald Reagan's inaugural address from 1981:

"We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we’re in a time when there are not heroes, they just don’t know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates. Others, a handful in number, produce enough food to feed all of us and then the world beyond. You meet heroes across a counter, and they’re on both sides of that counter. There are entrepreneurs with faith in themselves and faith in an idea who create new jobs, new wealth and opportunity. They’re individuals and families whose taxes support the government and whose voluntary gifts support church, charity, culture, art, and education. Their patriotism is quiet, but deep. Their values sustain our national life."

As for Obamacare, well, as Reagan predicted that "the march of freedom and democracy" would "leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people," I feel safe in predicting the same fate of winding up on the ash heap of history for Obamacare, which is based on Marxist-Leninist principles.


Historically, it's been the chasm between the haves and have-nots, as well as allowing those in poverty to be ground down, that has led to communism. FDR saved America with the New Deal federal programs, otherwise it was a good possibility that either the extreme right or the extreme left might have taken the reigns of power during the great Depression, because the American people were increasingly left with fewer and fewer options. Programs like the ACA aren't the segway to your Marxist-Leninist revolution, but rather, it's a means of stopping it, as more and more people are falling into despair about the future again.
By the way, Reagan had hit off his Presidential campaign against Jimmy Carter at the little Mississippi town where three civil rights workers had been murdered by KKK members within the local Sheriff's office. Reagan condemned - not the murder of the three idealistic men - but how civil rights had humiliated the south. That had set the tone for his campaign, completing the work of Nixon's Southern Strategy by getting conservative white southerners to desert the Democratic party in droves, thereby making the GOP appear to be a sanctuary for racists and cranks. Not exactly my picture of an American hero, despite all his speeches with which he painted castles in the air.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


EzraS
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26 Mar 2017, 2:21 am

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?



the_phoenix
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26 Mar 2017, 2:23 am

Those who wish to put words in Reagan's mouth would do well to provide an actual quote, and get their facts straight about his campaign, while they're at it.

Anyways, I'll take this occasion to provide another Reaganesque quote: "Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his." ― Ronald Reagan :D (notice the wide-mouth smiley for Jimmy Carter's famously wide and toothy grin)



Last edited by the_phoenix on 26 Mar 2017, 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shahunshah
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26 Mar 2017, 2:28 am

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?
Depends on a country to country basis. In New Zealand we have far less the median income than in the United yet our life expectancy is 4 years older than in the USA. Sweden, the UK, Denmark and Australia are all strong economies that have Universal healthcare.



the_phoenix
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26 Mar 2017, 2:32 am

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want to be assured of prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck with what they get.



Shahunshah
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26 Mar 2017, 2:35 am

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck.
The average Canadian has a 2 year longer life expectancy. The USA is far richer and has a much greater median income. Just let that sink in.



EzraS
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26 Mar 2017, 2:40 am

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want to be assured of prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck with what they get.


That doesn't really answer my question, it just sounds like hyperbole.



the_phoenix
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26 Mar 2017, 2:51 am

Shahunshah wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck.
The average Canadian has a 2 year longer life expectancy. The USA is far richer and has a much greater median income. Just let that sink in.


In that case, the USA being able to provide the fastest, highest-quality healthcare is even more crucial.



Shahunshah
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26 Mar 2017, 2:52 am

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want to be assured of prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck with what they get.


That doesn't really answer my question, it just sounds like hyperbole.
hey Eras could I just ask where do you lie politically?



the_phoenix
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26 Mar 2017, 3:11 am

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We HAVE to come up with something better.


It's called Single Payer.


Which means what?


Single-payer is basically socialized medicine.
Socialized, as in Socialist.

Ronald Reagan was a great American president, a great Republican Conservative.
And here's what Ronald Reagan had to say about it, in his own words.
(Hint: Socialized medicine is bad news.)

YouTube video below: Contains audio of Ronald Reagan speaking out against socialized medicine.



...


Reagan's speech aside, since the rest of the industrialized world has this Single Payer type of health care system going, how has it been working out for them?


Rich Canadians who want to be assured of prompt, high-quality health care can travel to the USA to get it.
Poor Canadians ... are pretty much stuck with what they get.


That doesn't really answer my question, it just sounds like hyperbole.


Here's a link to an article on the topic, called "Crossing the Border for Care":

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

...



EzraS
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26 Mar 2017, 4:22 am

Shahunshah wrote:
hey Eras could I just ask where do you lie politically?


Nowhere really right now. I'm letting it develop.


the_phoenix wrote:
Here's a link to an article on the topic, called "Crossing the Border for Care":

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

...


Cool, thanks much for the info.



Last edited by EzraS on 26 Mar 2017, 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shahunshah
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26 Mar 2017, 4:29 am

EzraS wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
hey Eras could I just ask where do you lie politically?


Nowhere really right now. I'm letting it develop.


the_phoenix wrote:
Here's a link to an article on the topic, called "Crossing the Border for Care":

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

...


Cool, thanks much for the info.[/quote]Hmm. Formed any opinions on things?



EzraS
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26 Mar 2017, 4:59 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Hmm. Formed any opinions on things?


Pretty much just on current events. Calling things as I see them, with a willingness to allow my opinions to change.



LoveNotHate
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26 Mar 2017, 9:17 am

Trump is still working to defeat Obamacare.

What Trump is doing
-signed an executive order that authorizes federal agencies to "minimize the economic burden" of the ACA
-Trump ended Obamacare sign up ads, so fewer people sign up
-Trump is letting states decide what "essential services" should be required in an ACA insurance policy.
-The IRS dropped it's requirement that tax-filers show proof of health insurance on their 1040s.

What Trump can do
-HHS Secretary Price can grant "hardship waiver" to everyone so they can avoid the individual mandate.
-HHS Secretary Price can eliminate required "essential services" from ACA policies
-Trump can drop the U.S. House of Reps. v. Burwell case. This is expected to end ACA subsidies for 5 million ACA participants.
-Trump can propose to eliminate "risk corridor" payments to insurance companies
-HHS Secretary Price has 1, 442 discretionary directives in the ACA that he could choose to ignore

sources:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... ection-and
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/ar ... out-repeal
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... mps-hands/
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/10/us/p ... .html?_r=0
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... e2379dbb6b
http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/14/irs-b ... al-mandate