The anti-white awards... I mean Grammys

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JohnPowell
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02 Feb 2018, 1:03 pm

Goldilocks wrote:
People do not dislike Donald Trump for being a successful white man. The fact you even think this is hilarious, absurd and reductive. I'm not even American but I feel sorry for Americans of colour. All their hard work reduced to a ridiculous wall and a short video documenting their death.

Tbh I'm still confused as to how people put him in the white house.


What are you talking about regarding the short video?

Easy. He was the best option out of the two.


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02 Feb 2018, 1:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of non-misogynistic men appreciate Lady Gaga! :lol:

I think it's complicated when Miley and Gaga say they support women who are sexually abused but then behave like sex dolls to sell records


A lot of women feel empowered by taking control of their sexuality, among them Lady Gaga.


They aren't taking control of it though, the music business is. They are just harlots basically.


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02 Feb 2018, 1:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I never watched the Grammys this year - or any - but I have to ask, was anyone actually awarded for calling women derogatory names and threatening to rape them with inanimate objects?

Big Sean and Eminem


When did Eminem do that? I know he has some very explicit lyrics...but cannot recall him ever promoting/justifying rape. So not sure about that....he is one of the few rappers I like because there is some real stuff buried in there, whereas some just seem to want to romanticize 'thug culture' or whatever but he doesn't.


He did jokingly sing about raping his mum on his second album.


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02 Feb 2018, 1:18 pm

Chronos wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
What a joke. The awards where a load of rich people make out they are for those discriminated against or allegedly discriminated against. Apparently they all support 'equality' for women, that's they gave awards to men who refer to women as "bit**es and h*'s". Also among the feminists in the audience was Big Sean who spoke about raping a woman with numerous objects. Then to top it all off, the bad smell that won't go away comes out. Hillary Clinton who bullied her husband's alleged rape victims and who once laughed and bragged about getting a guy's sentence reduced who beat and raped a 12 year old child.

These people are completely deluded and out of touch with reality.


I'm glad you are disgusted at the hypocrisy in the media but I feel the subject of your post is not on topic with the actual post itself.

Additionally I have to reply to your comment on Hillary Clinton who you claim "and bragged about getting a guy's sentence reduced who beat and raped a 12 year old child" as this is a distortion of the context of the situation, which happens to be a situation I am particularly knowledgeable on.

First off, I would like to say that I do believe the victim was raped, and I believe Hillary Clinton thought so as well. The trauma the victim experienced, not only due to the rape, but also, of coming forward, is not anything to be minimized.

Hillary Clinton, however, can't reasonably be vilified in this any more than any other public defender who may have taken the case, because It's the public defender's job to defend those accused of criminal offenses, and ensure their rights are not violated, the integrity of the justice system is not violated, and that the individual receive due process, and that is what she did.

Some background on the case.
1. Hillary Clinton was appointed as public defender to a man named Bruce Thomas Alfred Taylor who was accused of raping a 12 year old girl. The appointing judge was Judge Maupin Cummings, who appointed Clinton on the recommendation of prosecutor Mahlon Gibson.

2. Clinton did not want to take the case and attempted to be removed from it but was denied. This is substantiated by Gibson.

Concerning your claim that Clinton got the man's sentence reduced. This is not true.

Taylor had not been sentenced or even tried when Clinton took the case. Clinton managed to get a plea deal due to lack of evidence in which Taylor would plead guilty to a lesser charge. Plea deals cannot go forward unless prosecutors agree. Had the prosecutor not agreed to a plea deal, and Taylor had plead innocent, they would have no evidence to get a conviction at trial and he would walk free as an exonerated man.

The prosecutor had no evidence because the only material evidence....a patch of Taylor's underwear containing blood and semen, had been lost or destroyed by the forensics lab. Additionally, at the time, there was no DNA testing and the only thing the lab could conclude was the presence of semen and blood and the blood type, the latter which is not unique to individuals.

As a defense attorney, Clinton had a right to view the evidence, and requested as much, however the lab sent back the underwear with the portion containing most of the actual evidence missing. There was a small stain remaining, however, and she proceeded to have the underwear examined by a forensic blood expert, who determined that the remaining stain was not sufficient enough to test and nothing could be concluded.

The prosecutor agreed that they were unable to prosecute the case as a rape case, based on lack of evidence, and agreed to a plea deal in which Taylor would plead guilty to "unlawful fondling of a child under the age of 14"

On the recommendation of the prosecutor, the judge gave Taylor a 5 year prison sentence, with four years suspended. He was to serve the remaining year in the county jail and the judge gave him credit for the two months he had already spent there.

As for your claim that Clinton "laughed and bragged" about her accomplishment. That is not entirely correct. She gave an interview in the 1980s during which she talks about the case. She laughs a number of times in the interview..

1. After mentioning that she had Taylor took a polygraph, and he passed. She then says "which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs" during which time she laughs. 1:57 (it is that comment that leads me to believe she thought he had raped the girl).

It should be noted that shortly thereafter in the interview, Clinton states "But you know what was sad about it is that the prosecutors had evidence, among which was his underwear" and then goes on to the tell the story. So why is it sad? Because had they not lost the evidence, the charge would have remained rape, which she seems to think he was guilty of. He would have likely spent time in actual prison had the lab not erred.

2. When she is speaking about the prosecutor not wanting her to see the evidence, and she she had to go to the judge and tell him "yes indeed I had a right to see the evidence before it was presented" 2:48

3. When she is speaking of giving Taylor's underwear to the forensic blood expert and she says "And I pulled out my underpants and gave them to him" 4:32

4. When she is speaking of returning to the prosecutor and tells him "Well this guy's ready to come from New York to prevent this miscarriage of justice" 4:58

And it would have been a miscarriage of justice to prosecute someone for rape without evidence.

At the end, she does say "I got him off with time served in the county jail" but that's a factual statement that I don't see as bragging.

Here is the audio of the interview.

Audio of 1980s Hillary Clinton interview

If you wish to be upset with Hillary Clinton over this case, then I think the thing one can reasonably be upset with her about is perhaps her treatment of the victim, which the victim remembers as very harsh, though I don't know that any other defense attorney would have been any less so.


I think you are just playing with words. His possible sentence was reduced because the portion of underwear cut out was "lost", allowing them to go with the plea bargain. Knowing the Clintons i doubt it was lost.

I never blamed her for taking the case i know she tried rejecting it. She said it was sad but you add your own context. She was proud of how the remaining underwear was tested and that being how she got the plea bargain. She knew he was guilty yes. The case is an utter disgrace. She also questioned the mental stability of the girl and said about her exaggerating the story. Guess you missed that bit.


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cyberdad
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02 Feb 2018, 5:48 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
With regards to race i was talking about the awards in general and style of music.


Have you ever considered the lyrics are artistic and metaphorical as opposed to voicing intention? off course I agree there should be a +18 limit on who can listen to their music but kids can download music avoiding the filters so on that point I agree there is a risk they absorb and take the lyrics too literally...



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02 Feb 2018, 5:58 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of non-misogynistic men appreciate Lady Gaga! :lol:

I think it's complicated when Miley and Gaga say they support women who are sexually abused but then behave like sex dolls to sell records


A lot of women feel empowered by taking control of their sexuality, among them Lady Gaga.


They aren't taking control of it though, the music business is. They are just harlots basically.


Harlot? Are we speaking Biblically, now? Perhaps they should be smited for it!


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03 Feb 2018, 5:09 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Chronos wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
What a joke. The awards where a load of rich people make out they are for those discriminated against or allegedly discriminated against. Apparently they all support 'equality' for women, that's they gave awards to men who refer to women as "bit**es and h*'s". Also among the feminists in the audience was Big Sean who spoke about raping a woman with numerous objects. Then to top it all off, the bad smell that won't go away comes out. Hillary Clinton who bullied her husband's alleged rape victims and who once laughed and bragged about getting a guy's sentence reduced who beat and raped a 12 year old child.

These people are completely deluded and out of touch with reality.


I'm glad you are disgusted at the hypocrisy in the media but I feel the subject of your post is not on topic with the actual post itself.

Additionally I have to reply to your comment on Hillary Clinton who you claim "and bragged about getting a guy's sentence reduced who beat and raped a 12 year old child" as this is a distortion of the context of the situation, which happens to be a situation I am particularly knowledgeable on.

First off, I would like to say that I do believe the victim was raped, and I believe Hillary Clinton thought so as well. The trauma the victim experienced, not only due to the rape, but also, of coming forward, is not anything to be minimized.

Hillary Clinton, however, can't reasonably be vilified in this any more than any other public defender who may have taken the case, because It's the public defender's job to defend those accused of criminal offenses, and ensure their rights are not violated, the integrity of the justice system is not violated, and that the individual receive due process, and that is what she did.

Some background on the case.
1. Hillary Clinton was appointed as public defender to a man named Bruce Thomas Alfred Taylor who was accused of raping a 12 year old girl. The appointing judge was Judge Maupin Cummings, who appointed Clinton on the recommendation of prosecutor Mahlon Gibson.

2. Clinton did not want to take the case and attempted to be removed from it but was denied. This is substantiated by Gibson.

Concerning your claim that Clinton got the man's sentence reduced. This is not true.

Taylor had not been sentenced or even tried when Clinton took the case. Clinton managed to get a plea deal due to lack of evidence in which Taylor would plead guilty to a lesser charge. Plea deals cannot go forward unless prosecutors agree. Had the prosecutor not agreed to a plea deal, and Taylor had plead innocent, they would have no evidence to get a conviction at trial and he would walk free as an exonerated man.

The prosecutor had no evidence because the only material evidence....a patch of Taylor's underwear containing blood and semen, had been lost or destroyed by the forensics lab. Additionally, at the time, there was no DNA testing and the only thing the lab could conclude was the presence of semen and blood and the blood type, the latter which is not unique to individuals.

As a defense attorney, Clinton had a right to view the evidence, and requested as much, however the lab sent back the underwear with the portion containing most of the actual evidence missing. There was a small stain remaining, however, and she proceeded to have the underwear examined by a forensic blood expert, who determined that the remaining stain was not sufficient enough to test and nothing could be concluded.

The prosecutor agreed that they were unable to prosecute the case as a rape case, based on lack of evidence, and agreed to a plea deal in which Taylor would plead guilty to "unlawful fondling of a child under the age of 14"

On the recommendation of the prosecutor, the judge gave Taylor a 5 year prison sentence, with four years suspended. He was to serve the remaining year in the county jail and the judge gave him credit for the two months he had already spent there.

As for your claim that Clinton "laughed and bragged" about her accomplishment. That is not entirely correct. She gave an interview in the 1980s during which she talks about the case. She laughs a number of times in the interview..

1. After mentioning that she had Taylor took a polygraph, and he passed. She then says "which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs" during which time she laughs. 1:57 (it is that comment that leads me to believe she thought he had raped the girl).

It should be noted that shortly thereafter in the interview, Clinton states "But you know what was sad about it is that the prosecutors had evidence, among which was his underwear" and then goes on to the tell the story. So why is it sad? Because had they not lost the evidence, the charge would have remained rape, which she seems to think he was guilty of. He would have likely spent time in actual prison had the lab not erred.

2. When she is speaking about the prosecutor not wanting her to see the evidence, and she she had to go to the judge and tell him "yes indeed I had a right to see the evidence before it was presented" 2:48

3. When she is speaking of giving Taylor's underwear to the forensic blood expert and she says "And I pulled out my underpants and gave them to him" 4:32

4. When she is speaking of returning to the prosecutor and tells him "Well this guy's ready to come from New York to prevent this miscarriage of justice" 4:58

And it would have been a miscarriage of justice to prosecute someone for rape without evidence.

At the end, she does say "I got him off with time served in the county jail" but that's a factual statement that I don't see as bragging.

Here is the audio of the interview.

Audio of 1980s Hillary Clinton interview

If you wish to be upset with Hillary Clinton over this case, then I think the thing one can reasonably be upset with her about is perhaps her treatment of the victim, which the victim remembers as very harsh, though I don't know that any other defense attorney would have been any less so.


I think you are just playing with words. His possible sentence was reduced because the portion of underwear cut out was "lost", allowing them to go with the plea bargain. Knowing the Clintons i doubt it was lost.


No, to have a sentence reduced, one must have a sentence to begin with. Implying the Clintons had a role in the lab losing the evidence is a bit paranoid in my opinion. In 1975, during the case, Hillary Clinton was about 27 and was still Hillary Rodham. She was engaged to Bill Clinton but they were not married until October of that year. Bill Clinton was a law professor in 1974 and ran for Attorney General of Arkansas in 1976 but was defeated. Neither Bill Clinton or Hillary Rodham Clinton were people of considerable influence at this point in their lives nor did either come from influential families.

JohnPowell wrote:
I never blamed her for taking the case i know she tried rejecting it. She said it was sad but you add your own context. She was proud of how the remaining underwear was tested and that being how she got the plea bargain. She knew he was guilty yes. The case is an utter disgrace. She also questioned the mental stability of the girl and said about her exaggerating the story. Guess you missed that bit.


It was a disgrace how those claiming they were raped were treated by society and the courts at the time, but I disagree with you that the case itself was a disgrace, at least in a legal sense. Legally the case was straight forward, and not exceptional in any sense.

As far as Hillary Clinton questioning the mental stability of the girl and accusing her of exaggerating the story, here is what the victim as an adult has said about this...

Victim as an adult wrote:
“Hillary then began to attack my character, forcing me to undergo multiple polygraph tests where I was asked explicit sexual questions I didn’t even understand. Next I was sent for a psychiatric examination. It felt like I was the one on trial.”


Before we continue discussing the facts, I would like to say that I do not morally support unsubstantiated attacks on a potential victim's character by defense attorneys, particularly when the victims are children, but as a matter of observation I would like to point that such tactics were and still are unfortunately common and Hillary Clinton would not have been the exception in her role as a defense attorney. Here are the facts.

1. The victim claims she was "sent for a psychiatric examination"

Clinton did request that the court have the victim undergo a psychiatric examination. There is no evidence this was granted, and sources say it was actually denied. The court docket contains no mentioning of it other than the request and affidavit to substantiate the request. If such an examination took place, we would expect an affidavit in the docket from the examiner.

2. The victim claims that Clinton attacked her character.

Yes and no. In the affidavit submitted to justify her request that the victim undergo psychiatric examination, Clinton States...

Clinton's request affidavit wrote:
4. I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing. I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body. Also that she exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way.

5. I have also been told by an expert in child psychology that children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experiences and that adolescents with disorganized families, such as the complainant, are even more prone to such behavior.

6. For these reasons and others that may be presented to the Court at the hearing on this motion, I believe a psychiatric examination would be in the best interest of justice.


3. The victim claims Clinton forced her to undergo multiple polygraph tests.

The victim may perhaps have undergone polygraph tests but there is no petition for this in the court docket nor any mentioning of the victim having undergone such tests in the court docket. In her interview, Clinton states that Taylor underwent a polygraph test and passed, but there is no mentioning of this in the court docket either. While the court docket requests results of any polygraph tests, along with any audio recordings, in a general request for evidence, polygraph tests are inadmissible in court. If the victim took a polygraph test, it's possible that this was actually requested not by Clinton but by investigators or even the prosecutor, but in the latter case we would also expect it to show up in the court docket, so I am guessing these tests were either requested by police investigators or possibly by the victims parents in an attempt to strengthen her case against him.

I think people are under the impression that Clinton cross examined the victim on the stand and accused her of lying and smeared her character to her face, and as far as I know, that's not what happened because the case never went to trial. The attack on her character was the statements made in the affidavit, which I don't believe the victim saw until the election.

Either way it must have been a horribly upsetting ordeal for the victim to be placed in a position where people were doubting her experience, particularly as she was a child.

I do not think Clinton acted unusual as a defense attorney and don't think any other defense attorney would have resulted in a harsher sentence. If anything, I think Clinton's move is what prevented him from walking away exonerated, and subjecting the girl to a grueling cross examination, because I think the odds of him being found guilty had he plead innocent and had gone to trial were slim. If one were a defense attorney and wanted to get their client the harshest sentence possible, I think the sentence Taylor got in this case would be it. So in some sense maybe we can argue that Clinton was a second rate defense attorney.

Personally the ones I am appalled with are the prosecutor and judge. They could have kept him incarcerated, at least for a little longer, and they decided not to.


On a personal note, I do not fault Hillary Clinton for being assigned to defend a man accused of (and likely guilty of) rape, and performing her duties as a defense attorney, nor do I fault her for giving her husband the benefit of the doubt when he was initially accused of sexual misconduct. I do, however, fault her for not divorcing him when it became apparent that he was an unfaithful husband and there may have been some truth to the claims of rape and sexual harassment/assault.



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03 Feb 2018, 11:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
With regards to race i was talking about the awards in general and style of music.


Have you ever considered the lyrics are artistic and metaphorical as opposed to voicing intention? off course I agree there should be a +18 limit on who can listen to their music but kids can download music avoiding the filters so on that point I agree there is a risk they absorb and take the lyrics too literally...


Of course. It just doesn't fit with the whole 'equality/feminist' narrative that is pushed.


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03 Feb 2018, 11:45 am

Chronos- That is why i said the kind of sentence he would have got had the evidence not been "lost". I said i wouldn't be surprised with regards to her or Bill, regardless of what her name was at the time.

I don't think she needed to question the mental stability of a 12 year old child she knew had been beaten and raped. But she showed she hasn't changed. She did similar stuff with Bill's alleged rape victims. It is also very likely she knows that Bill would have been having sex with underage girls on a private jet. These people are parasites and are guilty of numerous sick crimes, hence why they have been put in high positions. Easy to blackmail.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Chronos- That is why i said the kind of sentence he would have got had the evidence not been "lost". I said i wouldn't be surprised with regards to her or Bill, regardless of what her name was at the time.

I don't think she needed to question the mental stability of a 12 year old child she knew had been beaten and raped. But she showed she hasn't changed. She did similar stuff with Bill's alleged rape victims. It is also very likely she knows that Bill would have been having sex with underage girls on a private jet. These people are parasites and are guilty of numerous sick crimes, hence why they have been put in high positions. Easy to blackmail.


If Bill Clinton was on that plane, he probably was accompanied by Trump. Seriously, Trump has been accused long before his Presidency of being involved with the rich pedophile in question.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:37 pm

Yeah the argument "what about Bill Clinton" is lame since if he's found guilty of abusing girls procured by Epstein then it would be almost certain that Prince Andrew and Donald Trump would follow anyway since the latter are known sex addicts who frequented the company of Epstein. Trump already dodged a bullet with the 13 yr old who was intimidated when he became president to drop the case against him..

There seems to be a delusion that if Clinton is charged it would take attention away from Trump...all that would happen is it would broaden the "drag net" and Trump probably knows this...



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03 Feb 2018, 4:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Chronos- That is why i said the kind of sentence he would have got had the evidence not been "lost". I said i wouldn't be surprised with regards to her or Bill, regardless of what her name was at the time.

I don't think she needed to question the mental stability of a 12 year old child she knew had been beaten and raped. But she showed she hasn't changed. She did similar stuff with Bill's alleged rape victims. It is also very likely she knows that Bill would have been having sex with underage girls on a private jet. These people are parasites and are guilty of numerous sick crimes, hence why they have been put in high positions. Easy to blackmail.


If Bill Clinton was on that plane, he probably was accompanied by Trump. Seriously, Trump has been accused long before his Presidency of being involved with the rich pedophile in question.


Na. The accusations about Trump only started when it was clear he was going to be the Republican candidate. Purely political.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Yeah the argument "what about Bill Clinton" is lame since if he's found guilty of abusing girls procured by Epstein then it would be almost certain that Prince Andrew and Donald Trump would follow anyway since the latter are known sex addicts who frequented the company of Epstein. Trump already dodged a bullet with the 13 yr old who was intimidated when he became president to drop the case against him..

There seems to be a delusion that if Clinton is charged it would take attention away from Trump...all that would happen is it would broaden the "drag net" and Trump probably knows this...


God this is getting embarrassing. The media has been churping the same thing about the memo. Just guess work. Both Clintons need to be locked up regardless.


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03 Feb 2018, 4:58 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Chronos- That is why i said the kind of sentence he would have got had the evidence not been "lost". I said i wouldn't be surprised with regards to her or Bill, regardless of what her name was at the time.

I don't think she needed to question the mental stability of a 12 year old child she knew had been beaten and raped. But she showed she hasn't changed. She did similar stuff with Bill's alleged rape victims. It is also very likely she knows that Bill would have been having sex with underage girls on a private jet. These people are parasites and are guilty of numerous sick crimes, hence why they have been put in high positions. Easy to blackmail.


If Bill Clinton was on that plane, he probably was accompanied by Trump. Seriously, Trump has been accused long before his Presidency of being involved with the rich pedophile in question.


Na. The accusations about Trump only started when it was clear he was going to be the Republican candidate. Purely political.


Trump bragged about all the women he's had, even the wives of his friends. He aint a saint.
And if the charges against Trump are politically motivated, the same could be said about those directed at Bill Clinton.


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03 Feb 2018, 5:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump bragged about all the women he's had, even the wives of his friends.

Case in point
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... disgusting



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03 Feb 2018, 5:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Yeah the argument "what about Bill Clinton" is lame since if he's found guilty of abusing girls procured by Epstein then it would be almost certain that Prince Andrew and Donald Trump would follow anyway since the latter are known sex addicts who frequented the company of Epstein. Trump already dodged a bullet with the 13 yr old who was intimidated when he became president to drop the case against him..

There seems to be a delusion that if Clinton is charged it would take attention away from Trump...all that would happen is it would broaden the "drag net" and Trump probably knows this...


God this is getting embarrassing. The media has been churping the same thing about the memo. Just guess work. Both Clintons need to be locked up regardless.


If so, then so do Trump and his two sons, Udai and Kussai, and probably his wife... er, I mean daughter, Ivanka.


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