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Kraichgauer
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18 Mar 2018, 11:05 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Hi whatever your name is

I'm suggesting the porn star is putting on a performance.


She's not supposed to be credible because of her profession?


An old bias...like authorities not taking seriously when a hooker gets raped...assume they are asking for it...


Stormy Daniels isn't saying she got raped or assaulted. If you can't keep from going off on irrelevant tangents, then just give up trying to argue the subject already.


No, but Trump was disloyal to his wife and mother of his child. Then he wanted her to sign a non-disclosure agreement to cover his ass. Not exactly the actions of a born again Christian.


Well I suppose that's between him and God.

If the alleged affair actually took place that is.


If she's violating a non-disclosure agreement, then that means there was such an agreement, which in turn means Trump had had relations with her that he wants to keep covered up.
As for being between Trump and God - - he reached the White House in part to claiming he was a born again Christian. As perfectionism is so important to evangelicals, that means he seriously has fallen short of that standard.


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cyberdad
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18 Mar 2018, 3:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for being between Trump and God - - he reached the White House in part to claiming he was a born again Christian. As perfectionism is so important to evangelicals, that means he seriously has fallen short of that standard.


I imagine his devout christian supporters publicly praise him as a champion of god while privately whispering to their teenage daughters not to go too close to him (just in case)

I think it was Shakespeare who once said "hell is empty" "all the devils are here on earth". The bible belters perhaps should start deforesting the logs in their eyes that's impeding their ability to see clearly



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18 Mar 2018, 7:13 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
If she's violating a non-disclosure agreement, then that means there was such an agreement, which in turn means Trump had had relations with her that he wants to keep covered up.
As for being between Trump and God - - he reached the White House in part to claiming he was a born again Christian. As perfectionism is so important to evangelicals, that means he seriously has fallen short of that standard.


"If she's violating was a non-disclosure agreement". If means alleged. When you use the word "if", as you often do, it means you don't know if whatever happened or not. Even though you act so certain that something did happen when saying "if".

The bible says that all have fallen short, and that no one is righteous. That the man God himself chose as king of Israel, calling him a man after God's own heart, not only had an affair with a married woman, but had her husband murdered in order to cover it up. That's the sort of thing a Christian is supposed to keep in mind instead of passing judgement on another, is it not?



Last edited by EzraS on 18 Mar 2018, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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18 Mar 2018, 7:51 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for being between Trump and God - - he reached the White House in part to claiming he was a born again Christian. As perfectionism is so important to evangelicals, that means he seriously has fallen short of that standard.


I imagine his devout christian supporters publicly praise him as a champion of god while privately whispering to their teenage daughters not to go too close to him (just in case)

I think it was Shakespeare who once said "hell is empty" "all the devils are here on earth". The bible belters perhaps should start deforesting the logs in their eyes that's impeding their ability to see clearly


Christians would be more concerned about a president's politics, rather than what he has been accused of doing in his personal life before he became president.



Kraichgauer
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18 Mar 2018, 10:00 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If she's violating a non-disclosure agreement, then that means there was such an agreement, which in turn means Trump had had relations with her that he wants to keep covered up.
As for being between Trump and God - - he reached the White House in part to claiming he was a born again Christian. As perfectionism is so important to evangelicals, that means he seriously has fallen short of that standard.


"If she's violating was a non-disclosure agreement". If means alleged. When you use the word "if", as you often do, it means you don't know if whatever happened or not. Even though you act so certain that something did happen when saying "if".

The bible says that all have fallen short, and that no one is righteous. That the man God himself chose as king of Israel, calling him a man after God's own heart, not only had an affair with a married woman, but had her husband murdered in order to cover it up. That's the sort of thing a Christian is supposed to keep in mind instead of passing judgement on another, is it not?


No, that's not how I or most people necessarily use the word "if." I'm certain he had had an affair with her, because of the very existence of the nondisclosure deal.
Yes, all humans fall short of righteousness. But it's also true that the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


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EzraS
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19 Mar 2018, 12:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, that's not how I or most people necessarily use the word "if." I'm certain he had had an affair with her, because of the very existence of the nondisclosure deal.


I misread you. You meant if she violated it.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, all humans fall short of righteousness. But it's also true that the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


All Christians fall short of righteousness and all have sinned and continue to sin. When it came to condemning someone who committed adultry, Jesus said let he who is without sin throw the first rock.

But it seems like you have gone from disqualifying the president as a Christian based on him commenting a sin to equating him to a Pharisee. When all the time there's a separation of church and state and he isn't any kind of religious leader or a member of a clergy etc.

And my guess is you're not as quick to condemn Bill Clinton or LBJ or JFK or FDR as immoral hypocrites.



Last edited by EzraS on 19 Mar 2018, 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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19 Mar 2018, 12:49 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, that's not how I or most people necessarily use the word "if." I'm certain he had had an affair with her, because of the very existence of the nondisclosure deal.


I misread you. You meant if she violated it.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, all humans fall short of righteousness. But it's also true that the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


All Christians fall short of righteousness and all have sinned and continue to sin. When it came to condemning someone who committed adultry, Jesus said let he who is without sin throw the first rock. But it seems like you have gone from disqualifying him as a Christian based on him commenting a sin to equating him to a Pharisee. When all the time there's a separation of church and state and Trump isn't any kind of religious leader or a member of a clergy etc.


Trump rode in on the shoulders of the religious right, which mainline Christians regard as the modern Pharisees. Yes, nobody is without sin, but that sin isn't why I'm attacking Trump. I'm attacking him for his hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of too many evangelicals who give him a pass while having damned Bill Clinton for straying. And if the truth be known, while Trump claims to be a Presbyterian, he actually ascribes to the prosperity gospel, which teaches that God rewards the faithful with wealth and the good life, while punishing the evil with poverty. Guess they never read the Bible, where Christ's disciples were dirt poor, depended on begging to live, and almost all died violently.


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cyberdad
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19 Mar 2018, 12:57 am

EzraS wrote:
Christians would be more concerned about a president's politics, rather than what he has been accused of doing in his personal life before he became president.


Pro-Trump christians should go back and read the new testament scriptures

Kraichgauer wrote:
the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


this..Jesus hated the pharisees more than anybody else - like right wing conservative Christians...the worst example of hypocrites



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19 Mar 2018, 1:13 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Hi whatever your name is

I'm suggesting the porn star is putting on a performance.


She's not supposed to be credible because of her profession?


An old bias...like authorities not taking seriously when a hooker gets raped...assume they are asking for it...


Stormy Daniels isn't saying she got raped or assaulted. If you can't keep from going off on irrelevant tangents, then just give up trying to argue the subject already.


No, but Trump was disloyal to his wife and mother of his child. Then he wanted her to sign a non-disclosure agreement to cover his ass. Not exactly the actions of a born again Christian.


Well I suppose that's between him and God.

If the alleged affair actually took place that is.

It's certainly not how the religious right took things when it came to Bill Clinton infidelity.


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19 Mar 2018, 1:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, that's not how I or most people necessarily use the word "if." I'm certain he had had an affair with her, because of the very existence of the nondisclosure deal.


I misread you. You meant if she violated it.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, all humans fall short of righteousness. But it's also true that the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


All Christians fall short of righteousness and all have sinned and continue to sin. When it came to condemning someone who committed adultry, Jesus said let he who is without sin throw the first rock. But it seems like you have gone from disqualifying him as a Christian based on him commenting a sin to equating him to a Pharisee. When all the time there's a separation of church and state and Trump isn't any kind of religious leader or a member of a clergy etc.


Trump rode in on the shoulders of the religious right, which mainline Christians regard as the modern Pharisees. Yes, nobody is without sin, but that sin isn't why I'm attacking Trump. I'm attacking him for his hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of too many evangelicals who give him a pass while having damned Bill Clinton for straying. And if the truth be known, while Trump claims to be a Presbyterian, he actually ascribes to the prosperity gospel, which teaches that God rewards the faithful with wealth and the good life, while punishing the evil with poverty. Guess they never read the Bible, where Christ's disciples were dirt poor, depended on begging to live, and almost all died violently.


So since one bunch dammed Clinton, the other bunch gets to damn Trump. When they do it it's wrong, but when we do it's okay.

When did the president say he's a member of the prosperity movement?

And does the pastor of your church live in poverty? What's his salary? I want to know.



Last edited by EzraS on 19 Mar 2018, 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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19 Mar 2018, 1:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Christians would be more concerned about a president's politics, rather than what he has been accused of doing in his personal life before he became president.


Pro-Trump christians should go back and read the new testament scriptures

Kraichgauer wrote:
the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


this..Jesus hated the pharisees more than anybody else - like right wing conservative Christians...the worst example of hypocrites


They should read the bible regarding what? And how are right-wing Christians more hypocritical than left-wing Christians?



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19 Mar 2018, 1:27 am

Tollorin wrote:
It's certainly not how the religious right took things when it came to Bill Clinton infidelity.


That's because Clinton did it as POTUS inside the Oval Office with a White House intern. That should be seen as far more egregious no matter what religion you are.



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19 Mar 2018, 1:44 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, that's not how I or most people necessarily use the word "if." I'm certain he had had an affair with her, because of the very existence of the nondisclosure deal.


I misread you. You meant if she violated it.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, all humans fall short of righteousness. But it's also true that the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


All Christians fall short of righteousness and all have sinned and continue to sin. When it came to condemning someone who committed adultry, Jesus said let he who is without sin throw the first rock. But it seems like you have gone from disqualifying him as a Christian based on him commenting a sin to equating him to a Pharisee. When all the time there's a separation of church and state and Trump isn't any kind of religious leader or a member of a clergy etc.


Trump rode in on the shoulders of the religious right, which mainline Christians regard as the modern Pharisees. Yes, nobody is without sin, but that sin isn't why I'm attacking Trump. I'm attacking him for his hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of too many evangelicals who give him a pass while having damned Bill Clinton for straying. And if the truth be known, while Trump claims to be a Presbyterian, he actually ascribes to the prosperity gospel, which teaches that God rewards the faithful with wealth and the good life, while punishing the evil with poverty. Guess they never read the Bible, where Christ's disciples were dirt poor, depended on begging to live, and almost all died violently.


So since one bunch dammed Clinton, the other bunch gets to damn Trump. When they do it it's wrong, but when they do it's okay.

When did the president say he subscribes to the president say he's a member of the prosperity movement?

And does the pastor of your church live in poverty? What's his salary?


Trump's so called evangelical council, which advises him on religious matters (I don't think any President ever had anything like this before) are all prosperity gospel (so called) theologians. One of them, a lady pastor, had courted Trump and other wealthy businessmen by telling them what they wanted to hear, and giving them pep (such as achieving their wordly dreams) talks instead of teaching them the Gospel.
Does it make it okay to attack Trump for the same way evangelicals attacked Clinton? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
No, my pastor doesn't live in poverty, but neither is he particularly rich, either. He's comfortably middle class. But on that subject: it so happens that a nearby church practising the prosperity gospel was FIRED by his congregation for not being wealthy enough! They couldn't believe he could be a Godly man is he wasn't so financially successful. My church wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, especially for such an idiotic reason.


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EzraS
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19 Mar 2018, 2:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump's so called evangelical council, which advises him on religious matters (I don't think any President ever had anything like this before) are all prosperity gospel (so called) theologians. One of them, a lady pastor, had courted Trump and other wealthy businessmen by telling them what they wanted to hear, and giving them pep (such as achieving their wordly dreams) talks instead of teaching them the Gospel.


I'll have to look into that, before I can comment on it.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Does it make it okay to attack Trump for the same way evangelicals attacked Clinton? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


So it's okay for a group to do what they say is wrong to do. As far as goose and gander goes, it's not an even steven situation.

Clinton: as POTUS.

Trump: as a private citizen 10 years before political office.

Clinton's location: the Oval Office.

Trump's location: private property.

Clinton: other person involved: White House intern.

Trump: other person involved: private citizen not employed by the government in any way.

There's a monumental difference between the two incidences.

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, my pastor doesn't live in poverty, but neither is he particularly rich, either. He's comfortably middle class. But on that subject: it so happens that a nearby church practising the prosperity gospel was FIRED by his congregation for not being wealthy enough! They couldn't believe he could be a Godly man is he wasn't so financially successful. My church wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, especially for such an idiotic reason.


But why doesn't your pastor live the way you said disciples of Christ should live in poverty? My dad has friend who's a radio bible teacher who gives every spare cent he has away and lives on bare necessities. Doesn't even ask for money or charge anything for hundreds of hours of teaching available online.



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19 Mar 2018, 3:08 am

EzraS wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
It's certainly not how the religious right took things when it came to Bill Clinton infidelity.


That's because Clinton did it as POTUS inside the Oval Office with a White House intern. That should be seen as far more egregious no matter what religion you are.


Both were morally disgusting but consensual affairs between adults. Clinton was impreached for it Trump will likely pay no price.

Clinton’s was defininate sexual harassment because of the power dynamics and that was post Anita Hill-Clarence Thomas so the concept was well understood at the time but the Dems chose to ignore it. They chose to ignore the sexual harassment angle right up until the #MeToo era when some Dems are reassesing Clinton.

Trumps hush money was apperant collusion to effect the 2016 election. I am astounded the Democrats are harping on the moral and possible campaign finance issues instead of the collusion angle considering how much time and energy they have spent since before the election happened on Russia-Trump collusion. Voters either do not care about consensenual affairs or as was the case with Clinton their popularity goes up. A campaign finance violation will be perceived as a technicallity or something that every politican does.


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19 Mar 2018, 3:31 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Christians would be more concerned about a president's politics, rather than what he has been accused of doing in his personal life before he became president.


Pro-Trump christians should go back and read the new testament scriptures

Kraichgauer wrote:
the people who Jesus was the most critical of were the hypocrites who talked a good game about how moral they were, but who didn't walk the talk.


this..Jesus hated the pharisees more than anybody else - like right wing conservative Christians...the worst example of hypocrites


They should read the bible regarding what? And how are right-wing Christians more hypocritical than left-wing Christians?

left wing Christians probably practice Christianity...share with the poor...socialism...oh the irony...