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cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 6:38 pm

I think western civilization is traitorous towards the entire world & I hack.

The fact is that we have no informed democracy without data breaches like this, barring the extremely remote possibility of real government transparency.


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cyberdad
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11 Apr 2019, 7:03 pm

demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
He's a traitor to whatever country he is a citizen of.


So why did Australia not charge him as such? Maybe because he did not do anything to them. Again, spy and thief, I can fathom but not traitor.

He was a computer hacker (and apparently a good one). Nothing to do with being an Australian.
Although he grew up in Queensland Australia, much of his subversive influence was from living overseas and mixing it with international hackers after forming wikileaks in 2006.



cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 7:04 pm

Wikileaks doesn't really count as subterfuge compared to the clandestine capabilities of most governments.


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11 Apr 2019, 7:06 pm

cberg wrote:
Wikileaks doesn't really count as subterfuge compared to the clandestine capabilities of most governments.
Well, that's obvious. It isn't as if Wikileaks is interfering in any elections, now is it?


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cyberdad
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11 Apr 2019, 7:06 pm

cberg wrote:
demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
He's a traitor to whatever country he is a citizen of.


So why did Australia not charge him as such? Maybe because he did not do anything to them. Again, spy and thief, I can fathom but not traitor.


Most hackers are spies & thieves. That in itself is no reason for you to pretend to know why. The hacking community does not answer to your materialistic notions of private property, in large part because you are being ripped off by governments & corporations.


They also help design security software for private companies and governments...Assange was employed by the Australian government for a while. This sought of activity you are better off recruiting actual hackers to stop other hackers rather than middle class computer programmers who just say "yes" to management. A but like the way the Anglo-Saxon kings hired viking mercenaries to fight the vikings.



cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 7:08 pm

:lol: I'm also half Norwegian. We're going to pillage the governmental tech establishment to smithereens. :lol:

Freedom of information makes the voting public more informed.

I see no other means for human survival.


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cyberdad
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11 Apr 2019, 7:12 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
The founding fathers were traitors to England. We need traitors, sometimes. I applaud Julian Assange! He turned his life to s**t providing information about how shameful our government has become.


Probably not relevant in this case. Every western country has a national security state that protects the country against subversive attack whether terrorism, trade wars or cyberspace. Assange compromised national security. If he could do it then how hard would it be for the Chinese or (even worse) militant operatives in Pakistan or the middle east from stealing vital information that puts our public in peril.

Arresting Assange is a necessary evil, I don't want to be blown up in Melbourne city because Assange posts secure information about the movement of police, army or ASIO (our equivalent of the FBI)



Fnord
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11 Apr 2019, 7:12 pm

cberg wrote:
... Freedom of information makes the voting public more informed...
Like when presidential candidates release their tax returns?

THAT would be more relevant to the average voter than what happened in previous administrations many years ago.


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cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 7:13 pm

Erasure of history is a pretty serious crime in my eyes.


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Fnord
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11 Apr 2019, 7:24 pm

cberg wrote:
Erasure of history is a pretty serious crime in my eyes.
Ever hear of the Sultana? No?

On April 27, 1865, the boat exploded in the worst maritime disaster in United States history. She was designed with a capacity of only 376 passengers, but she was carrying 2,137 when three of the boat's four boilers exploded and she burned to the waterline and sank near Memphis, Tennessee, killing 1,168 passengers. Those passengers were former POWs who were on their way home from Confederate prisons after the Civil War.

The episode of History Detectives, which aired on July 2, 2014, reviewed the known evidence, thoroughly disputed sabotage theories, and then focused on the question of why the steamboat was allowed to be crowded to several times its normal capacity before departure. The report blamed Army Quartermaster Reuben Hatch, an individual with a long history of corruption and incompetence, who was able to keep his job due to political connections: he was the younger brother of Illinois politician Ozias M. Hatch, an advisor and close friend of President Lincoln. Throughout the war, Reuben Hatch had shown incompetence as a quartermaster and competence as a thief, bilking the government out of thousands of dollars. Although brought up on courts-martial charges, Hatch managed to get letters of recommendation from such noted authorities as President Abraham Lincoln and General of the Army Ulysses S. Grant. The letters reside in the National Archives in Washington DC. After the disaster, Hatch refused three separate subpoenas to appear before Captain Speed's trial and give testimony. Hatch died in 1871, having escaped justice due to his numerous highly placed patrons -- including two presidents.

It wasn't until that History Detectives episode that the scandal became general knowledge. Had Mr. Lincoln not been assassinated, he would likely have gone down in history as a corrupt politician who traded favors and influence during his terms in office.

:roll: ... oh yeah, and he also freed some slaves ...

(Source: Salecker, Gene Eric (1996). "Disaster on the Mississippi: the Sultana Explosion", April 27, 1865. Annapolis, Md.: Naval Inst. Press. ISBN 1-55750-739-2.)


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cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 7:29 pm

I think we're more or less seeing the same thing happening now. It's a relatively well known fact that Lincoln's reasons for annexation of the south were mostly economic; slavery was simply in the way of federal control of the south because it made plantation owners too wealthy.

Fast forward a century or so & we're constructing a false narrative about a supporter of war crimes being the best thing that ever happened to us, like, ever. :roll:


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11 Apr 2019, 7:35 pm

cberg wrote:
... we're constructing a false narrative about a supporter of war crimes being the best thing that ever happened to us, like, ever.
History is written by the survivors, not necessarily the victors.


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cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 7:56 pm

Considering that victory where modern societies are concerned consists mostly of lies & "detainments", I think the meek inheriting the earth seems like a relatively safe bet.


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cberg
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11 Apr 2019, 8:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Assange compromised national security. If he could do it then how hard would it be for the Chinese or (even worse) militant operatives in Pakistan or the middle east from stealing vital information that puts our public in peril.

Arresting Assange is a necessary evil, I don't want to be blown up in Melbourne city because Assange posts secure information about the movement of police, army or ASIO (our equivalent of the FBI)


That would be extremely difficult as I understand it. Assange's methodology was quite individually sophisticated for his time compared to the hacker cultures we see operating under governments. Wikileaks also went to great lengths to avoid publishing compromising information relating to public safety.


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11 Apr 2019, 11:31 pm

Make no mistake, whatever charges they cook up for the books, they are after him because he told the truth about corruption and power and refused to lie and cover up for them.



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12 Apr 2019, 12:30 am

Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
Wikileaks doesn't really count as subterfuge compared to the clandestine capabilities of most governments.
Well, that's obvious. It isn't as if Wikileaks is interfering in any elections, now is it?


Just doing the job the media refused to do. The media was hysterically focusing on what Trump said 15 years ago on a bus while lobbying for a mass murderer who takes money from the funders of ISIS.


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