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Does Trump have absolute right he says?
Poll ended at 19 Oct 2019, 1:02 am
Yes 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
No 89%  89%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 18

LoveNotHate
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07 Oct 2019, 2:02 pm

Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
There might be some rabid Obama supporters----but very few with the intensity of Trump's supporters.

I have a critical view of Obama. I don't feel he can do "no wrong." He was, by no means, the best President we ever had.

But at least he's now trying to screw with the Constitution the way Trump is seeking to screw with the Constitution.


I have not seen what I would call rabid worship of Trump. Especially here. I wonder if it is something that actually exists in quantity, or if it is just repeated so much some believe it to be so.


I think it very much depends on the environment. In my life I don't know any Trump supporters. I work at a liberal university in a liberal city. In September of 2016 I took a drive across the state to go to a football game. In my city every yard sign was "I'm With Her." Out in the country the yard signs were all in a line along the highway so people driving past could see, and nearly all were "Trump-Pence."

I know rabid Trump supporters exist even if I don't come into contact with them.

There use to be regular pro-TRUMP news articles.

Now those members got banned, we seldom see it.


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07 Oct 2019, 2:05 pm

Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
There might be some rabid Obama supporters----but very few with the intensity of Trump's supporters.

I have a critical view of Obama. I don't feel he can do "no wrong." He was, by no means, the best President we ever had.

But at least he's now trying to screw with the Constitution the way Trump is seeking to screw with the Constitution.


I have not seen what I would call rabid worship of Trump. Especially here. I wonder if it is something that actually exists in quantity, or if it is just repeated so much some believe it to be so.


I think it very much depends on the environment. In my life I don't know any Trump supporters. I work at a liberal university in a liberal city. In September of 2016 I took a drive across the state to go to a football game. In my city every yard sign was "I'm With Her." Out in the country the yard signs were all in a line along the highway so people driving past could see, and nearly all were "Trump-Pence."

I know rabid Trump supporters exist even if I don't come into contact with them.


I'd say I live in a fairly liberal area but there are right wingers and I certainly don't assume they're all MAGAs. Of course when I see someone in a pick up with a giant don't tread on me flag on one side and a giant blue line flag on the other side. Perhaps a f*ck your feelings bumper sticker, Trump stickers and a painful amount of american flag stickers who then proceeds to blast a big cloud of black smoke out their tail-pipe or at the very least rev up aggressively when the light turns green. It is hard not to assume they're a bit of an extremist.


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07 Oct 2019, 2:06 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Sometimes you have to initiate impeachment even if it is not going to result in a trial and conviction.

The reasons I see for the initiation of impeachment at this point in time are:

1. The demonstrated use of the office of the president for personal private gain has crossed a line.
2. It is Congress's job to put the brakes on rogue president. Being quiet in the presence of wrong doing makes the quiet complicit.
3. Even if he will not be convicted by the Senate, initiation of impeachment lets him know he has gone too far. (Doing nothing, gives him the unfettered go-ahead.)

I was on a board of directors and the popular CEO had become corrupt. I caused a huge ruckus and was unsuccessful in unseating her BUT, she admitted later she stopped firing people willy nilly because the board "was looking at this." Interestingly enough, after I left the board, she was walked out of the building, fired for the complaints I had made. I found it interesting that my little fuss resulted later in her downfall.

Why impeach if it won't result in him being removed from office?

Ruin his reputation, then he thinks twice?


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07 Oct 2019, 2:10 pm

This second whistleblower could be a problem for Trump depending on what in the new whistleblowers statement.It could be the difference in whether the senate convicts or not.

And a lot depends on how stuborn senate republicans are and what evidence they will accept as valid,they still claim there was no quid pro quo in the july 25th phone call.Right now I would say everything is to up in the air to make a guess on Trump's future


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07 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Sometimes you have to initiate impeachment even if it is not going to result in a trial and conviction.

The reasons I see for the initiation of impeachment at this point in time are:

1. The demonstrated use of the office of the president for personal private gain has crossed a line.
2. It is Congress's job to put the brakes on rogue president. Being quiet in the presence of wrong doing makes the quiet complicit.
3. Even if he will not be convicted by the Senate, initiation of impeachment lets him know he has gone too far. (Doing nothing, gives him the unfettered go-ahead.)

I was on a board of directors and the popular CEO had become corrupt. I caused a huge ruckus and was unsuccessful in unseating her BUT, she admitted later she stopped firing people willy nilly because the board "was looking at this." Interestingly enough, after I left the board, she was walked out of the building, fired for the complaints I had made. I found it interesting that my little fuss resulted later in her downfall.

Why impeach if it won't result in him being removed from office?

Ruin his reputation, then he thinks twice?
I think the house of representitives point of view is that they have evidence of wrong doing and possibly a crime so they have to proceed.


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07 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Why impeach if it won't result in him being removed from office?
Impeachment is like a Grand Jury investigation, in that it's purpose is to determine if the subject of the impeachment has done something wrong enough to deserve a trial (in this case, by Congress) -- an impeachment does not remove of a politician from office, just as an indictment does not put a person in prison.
LoveNotHate wrote:
You think it ruins his reputation?
How much worse could his reputation get?


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07 Oct 2019, 2:16 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Sometimes you have to initiate impeachment even if it is not going to result in a trial and conviction.

The reasons I see for the initiation of impeachment at this point in time are:

1. The demonstrated use of the office of the president for personal private gain has crossed a line.
2. It is Congress's job to put the brakes on rogue president. Being quiet in the presence of wrong doing makes the quiet complicit.
3. Even if he will not be convicted by the Senate, initiation of impeachment lets him know he has gone too far. (Doing nothing, gives him the unfettered go-ahead.)

I was on a board of directors and the popular CEO had become corrupt. I caused a huge ruckus and was unsuccessful in unseating her BUT, she admitted later she stopped firing people willy nilly because the board "was looking at this." Interestingly enough, after I left the board, she was walked out of the building, fired for the complaints I had made. I found it interesting that my little fuss resulted later in her downfall.

Why impeach if it won't result in him being removed from office?

Ruin his reputation, then he thinks twice?


1) To send a statement that certain behavior is unacceptable.

2) If it helps you beat him in the next election.

I think 1 is weak unless 2 happens. If you send a message but still get beat your message doesn't matter.


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07 Oct 2019, 2:21 pm

If, like the cops, there is reasonable suspicion. I don't think he has absolute power to investigate just anyone who has done nothing wrong.


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07 Oct 2019, 2:35 pm

Whats new in Trumps world.

1.A second whistleblower.

2.Secretary of state Mike Pompeo defended the state department missing a friday deadline to turn over documents requested under a house subpoena.

3.The democratic chairmen of the house intelligence oversight and foreign affairs committees today subpoenaed the pentagon and several other groups,they are demanding documents get turned over by oct.15.

4.Democrats say they'll subpoena Giuliani associates if they don't turn over documents and give depositions.


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07 Oct 2019, 4:02 pm

I don't feel the Democrats are expecting a conviction, either.

I feel like they want to whittle down his credibility----to the point where he loses the usually Democratic states which he won narrowly in 2016. That just might be enough to lose the election for him.



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07 Oct 2019, 7:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It might seem "scripted"---but it's how I feel.

I sense the existence of people who feel Trump can "do no wrong."

I just don't like folks who attract a "devoted following." It bothers me.

If Joseph Biden had a "devoted following" like Trump apparently does, it would bother me.


Aren't/weren't Obama fans the same way?


When did Obama ever risk impeachment by trying to derail a political rival by bringing in a foreign party?


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07 Oct 2019, 7:56 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
I would think the president (executive branch) military, FBI, CIA can ask anyone to investigate anyone regarding a potential crime.


For a legitimate reason not involving a political or personal rivalry.
On top of that, Trump had tried blackmailing Ukraine by threatening to withhold military funds allotted them by congress.


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07 Oct 2019, 8:08 pm

EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
There might be some rabid Obama supporters----but very few with the intensity of Trump's supporters.

I have a critical view of Obama. I don't feel he can do "no wrong." He was, by no means, the best President we ever had.

But at least he's now trying to screw with the Constitution the way Trump is seeking to screw with the Constitution.


I have not seen what I would call rabid worship of Trump. Especially here. I wonder if it is something that actually exists in quantity, or if it is just repeated so much some believe it to be so.


Have you ever seen a Trump rally?!?! You've got blind political adoration bordering on religious zeal. Combine that with rage at people Trump calls enemies, be they immigrants (legal or otherwise), the media, or any other out group, and it gets extremely scary.
Here on my side of Washington state, we've got a lunatic state representative name Matt Shea who wants not only to split the east side off in order to form a new state of Liberty which would reenact some sort of rural/small town utopia, but has aligned himself with white nationalists and sovereign citizens complete with paramilitary training camps. He even has a post-apocalyptic blueprint for a new society all laid out based on dominionist Christianity where gays and women having abortions would be put to death. And guess which President they've firmly linked themselves to.


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08 Oct 2019, 12:19 am

Matt Shea seems to be the epitomy of the type of people attracted to Trump rallies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eam-rugged

Pro-Trump Pro-Republican and allies himself with neo-confederates wanting a white christian separate state in Spokane.



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08 Oct 2019, 12:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
Matt Shea seems to be the epitomy of the type of people attracted to Trump rallies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eam-rugged

Pro-Trump Pro-Republican and allies himself with neo-confederates wanting a white christian separate state in Spokane.


It astounds me why people in my district continue to vote for this loon. I can only hope that it's because he has a familiar name and is an office holder and not because people around here agree with him.


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08 Oct 2019, 12:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Matt Shea seems to be the epitomy of the type of people attracted to Trump rallies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eam-rugged

Pro-Trump Pro-Republican and allies himself with neo-confederates wanting a white christian separate state in Spokane.


It astounds me why people in my district continue to vote for this loon. I can only hope that it's because he has a familiar name and is an office holder and not because people around here agree with him.


That's the $64,000 question...if you answer that you might get more insight into the minds of the average Trump voter