Monuments to racism toppling around the world.

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Pepe
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13 Jun 2020, 6:42 am

KT67 wrote:
If the Churchill one gets toppled (Black and Tans were evil, he did other evil stuff too like causing a famine in India), we should appease the people who are good and not bigots but object to it cos he was a World War Two hero.

I suggest Alan Turing. Man was probably aspie, gay, a war hero of the Second World War, didn't get the recognition he deserved in his lifetime and was treated like dirt after the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing


To the eternal shame of Britain.



goldfish21
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13 Jun 2020, 2:02 pm

Banksy proposes new statue honoring protesters who toppled Edward Colston statue in England

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-flo ... n-england/

He says drag it back out of the river and erect statues of protestors tearing it down to commemorate the protest and make everyone happy:

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Classic Banksy political statement art. 8) Not a terrible idea, really..


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goldfish21
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13 Jun 2020, 2:04 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
From confederate statues across the USA to some slave trader statue in Bristol, England, and even a local one here in Vancouver - which hasn’t been toppled, but it’s being suggested it should be & maybe replaced with an Indigenous woman or something.. IMO the entire movement is rather refreshing to watch and long overdue.

It’s also kinda fun to watch the back and forth commentary about history and blah blah whatever. Ok, cool, argue about preserving history and such all you want while progressive humans continue to take action and toss bronze monuments to racism into rivers. 8)
.

It’s not refreshing, it’s frightening. :( It has nothing to do with the damn statues. Either decisions about public land are going to made by elected officials or they are going to be made by individuals or groups because they feel like it. Through protests and so on it can be made clear to elected officials they will be voted out of office just as companies have ditched things because it has made clear to them they will lose money if they keep said things. Anarchy or democracy? ATM it is looking bad for democracy for this and other reasons(hint real estate magnate)


Are you talking about all the confederate monuments to white supremacy that were erected across the USA after the civil rights movement in 1968?

It appears the people have spoken and no longer grant bigots the social licence to display these pieces of crap. Tear them all down. 8)


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Tim_Tex
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13 Jun 2020, 2:49 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-53036785

Why would anyone petition to remove a monument to the #1 advocate for world peace?


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sly279
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13 Jun 2020, 2:58 pm

Amity wrote:
What about every monument throughout the ages built by slaves? Why not go back as far as antiquity and topple everything from the Mesopotamia period onwards, are symbols of more recent slavery more significant than symbols of ancient slavery?

Don’t forget the Great pyramid, oh and the Roman Colosseum constructed by slaves and then made slaves fight to their death in it or fed them to wild animals for the amusement of the wealthy.
The Great Wall of China. Who bodies of the slave workers were just dropped inside it.


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sly279
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13 Jun 2020, 3:12 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-53036785

Why would anyone petition to remove a monument to the #1 advocate for world peace?

Because he’s human and so not perfect. There’s most likely something bad about him just like all of us. Lincoln freed the slaves but was racist even a white supremis? Is t white supremacy the beleive whites are superior to blacks? Lincoln believed there to be physical differences between blacks and whites that made it so they could never be equal or live together. Many who were for abolishing slaverly didn’t think blacks were same as whites and didn’t want them to have the same rights as whites. The idea blacks would live with whites, vote, serve on juries trying whites or marry whites offended them.
So I suppose the issue is does the good a person do wipe or forgive the bad in them?
Was Lincoln a food man? He wouldn’t be considered one today, someone with his ideas is called a racist and certainly wouldn’t win any election to office.
Compared to others of his time he was certainly better then people who saw blacks are property. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also saw women as less equal. Most people did back then. So does the good he did make up for being a racist?
Does the good Washington, Jefferson and others did make up for being racist slave owners?
Reality is they’ve seen as great men and huge part of our nations cultur and standing. To tear them down will lead to great upheavel. Tearing down our identity as a nation. But we can’t be fair and unbiased if we tear down only some statues and monuments to racist people while giving others a pass.
There’s already been calls to tear down and rename stuff about Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln for his freeing the slaves is hide for now until some sjw find out his opinions on blacks and likely women, then he too will be on the chopping block.
Most of our heroes and leaders are flawed people With dark sides. Do we tear them all down?


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TuskenR
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13 Jun 2020, 3:23 pm

Reports coming in of statues fighting back!

ImageImageImageImage


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Last edited by TuskenR on 13 Jun 2020, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tim_Tex
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13 Jun 2020, 3:24 pm

So maybe downtown Houston can finally get a statue of Pol Pot?


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Syd
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13 Jun 2020, 3:28 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
So maybe downtown Houston can finally get a statue of Pol Pot?




vermontsavant
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13 Jun 2020, 3:33 pm

sly279 wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-53036785

Why would anyone petition to remove a monument to the #1 advocate for world peace?

Because he’s human and so not perfect. There’s most likely something bad about him just like all of us. Lincoln freed the slaves but was racist even a white supremis? Is t white supremacy the beleive whites are superior to blacks? Lincoln believed there to be physical differences between blacks and whites that made it so they could never be equal or live together. Many who were for abolishing slaverly didn’t think blacks were same as whites and didn’t want them to have the same rights as whites. The idea blacks would live with whites, vote, serve on juries trying whites or marry whites offended them.
So I suppose the issue is does the good a person do wipe or forgive the bad in them?
Was Lincoln a food man? He wouldn’t be considered one today, someone with his ideas is called a racist and certainly wouldn’t win any election to office.
Compared to others of his time he was certainly better then people who saw blacks are property. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also saw women as less equal. Most people did back then. So does the good he did make up for being a racist?
Does the good Washington, Jefferson and others did make up for being racist slave owners?
Reality is they’ve seen as great men and huge part of our nations cultur and standing. To tear them down will lead to great upheavel. Tearing down our identity as a nation. But we can’t be fair and unbiased if we tear down only some statues and monuments to racist people while giving others a pass.
There’s already been calls to tear down and rename stuff about Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln for his freeing the slaves is hide for now until some sjw find out his opinions on blacks and likely women, then he too will be on the chopping block.
Most of our heroes and leaders are flawed people With dark sides. Do we tear them all down?
It's most likely that Lincoln freed the slaves for military strategic reasons and not for social reasons as commonly believed.


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Wolfram87
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13 Jun 2020, 3:58 pm

Meanwhile, in Seattle:

Image

remains unmolested.


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sly279
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13 Jun 2020, 4:10 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-53036785

Why would anyone petition to remove a monument to the #1 advocate for world peace?

Because he’s human and so not perfect. There’s most likely something bad about him just like all of us. Lincoln freed the slaves but was racist even a white supremis? Is t white supremacy the beleive whites are superior to blacks? Lincoln believed there to be physical differences between blacks and whites that made it so they could never be equal or live together. Many who were for abolishing slaverly didn’t think blacks were same as whites and didn’t want them to have the same rights as whites. The idea blacks would live with whites, vote, serve on juries trying whites or marry whites offended them.
So I suppose the issue is does the good a person do wipe or forgive the bad in them?
Was Lincoln a food man? He wouldn’t be considered one today, someone with his ideas is called a racist and certainly wouldn’t win any election to office.
Compared to others of his time he was certainly better then people who saw blacks are property. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also saw women as less equal. Most people did back then. So does the good he did make up for being a racist?
Does the good Washington, Jefferson and others did make up for being racist slave owners?
Reality is they’ve seen as great men and huge part of our nations cultur and standing. To tear them down will lead to great upheavel. Tearing down our identity as a nation. But we can’t be fair and unbiased if we tear down only some statues and monuments to racist people while giving others a pass.
There’s already been calls to tear down and rename stuff about Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln for his freeing the slaves is hide for now until some sjw find out his opinions on blacks and likely women, then he too will be on the chopping block.
Most of our heroes and leaders are flawed people With dark sides. Do we tear them all down?
It's most likely that Lincoln freed the slaves for military strategic reasons and not for social reasons as commonly believed.

Well yes and no maybe. Mean his first attempt at freeing slaves only did so in areas the union army took, idea being if the south surrendered quicker the less slaves they’d lose.
At same time he was being pressured by anti slavery but still racist Congress memebers.

There seems to be an idea that if ones anti slavery they can’t be racist.but that clearly isn’t so. Slavery itself isn’t a racist issue. Every race has been slaves. Mean slavely still happens today in western countries even as sex slaves which doesn’t care about ones race.


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goldfish21
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13 Jun 2020, 4:12 pm

^who's that guy?


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13 Jun 2020, 4:17 pm

Amity wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Amity wrote:
What about every monument throughout the ages built by slaves? Why not go back as far as antiquity and topple everything from the Mesopotamia period onwards, are symbols of more recent slavery more significant than symbols of ancient slavery?


Were the Egyptian pyramids built by slaves? :scratch:
I could Google, but meh. :wink:

Start the bulldozers... :wink:


The Pyramids were not built by slaves.

But they WERE built by pre Islamic Pagan Heathens! So...Im with ISIL....lets all demolish them! :evil:



Wolfram87
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13 Jun 2020, 4:20 pm

Just this nice old russian guy called Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov. Better known as Lenin.


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naturalplastic
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13 Jun 2020, 5:57 pm

Did not know that any American town had a statue of Lenin. 8O

Must have been put up by labor unionists at the end of WWI. Am amazed that it survived the post WWII McCarthy period. The city fathers probably...don't like to talk about it. Lol!