Mass Casualties Astroworld Music Fest Houston

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IsabellaLinton
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08 Nov 2021, 10:14 am

https://www.nytimes.com/article/astrowo ... ctims.html

Here are the victims. May they rest in peace.

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kraftiekortie
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08 Nov 2021, 10:14 am

All too young for a life to be snuffed out of them.....

IsabellaLinton
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08 Nov 2021, 10:23 am

No one should have the life snuffed out of them, at any age.

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Fnord
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08 Nov 2021, 10:34 am

Off Topic

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When I can tune in to any random Los Angeles FM station featuring that genre and hear profanity, threats of violence, descriptions of violence, and expressions of indifference to the suffering of others -- all as an expression of 'art' -- that (to me) is a pretty good indication that the genre sucks.

If I judged all rock based on the buttrock modern rock radio plays we'd both agree I was making an uninformed judgment based on the tip of the iceberg, right?

No, I am no fan of what passes for 'rock' music these days, either.

While the "Top 40" song format may be gone, there are still only a few dozen musical groups from as far back as the 1970s being played -- Abba, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Beatles, Black Sabbath, Bon Jovi, Boston, Bowie, Chicago, Cream, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Deep Purple, Def Leppard, Doors, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Genesis, Guns N' Roses, Hendrix, Journey, Kiss, Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Metallica, Motley Crue, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Queen, Ramones, Rolling Stones, Rush, Springsteen, U2, Van Halen, White Snake, Who, Yes, ZZ Top, et cetera ...

I mean, they were all great bands in their day; but they are not the only rock bands that ever were.

funeralxempire
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08 Nov 2021, 10:42 am

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

If I judged all rock based on the buttrock modern rock radio plays we'd both agree I was making an uninformed judgment based on the tip of the iceberg, right?

No, I am no fan of what passes for 'rock' music these days, either.

While the "Top 40" song format may be gone, there are still only a few dozen musical groups from as far back as the 1970s being played -- Abba, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Beatles, Black Sabbath, Bon Jovi, Boston, Bowie, Chicago, Cream, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Deep Purple, Def Leppard, Doors, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Genesis, Guns N' Roses, Hendrix, Journey, Kiss, Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Metallica, Motley Crue, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Queen, Ramones, The Rolling Stones, Rush, Springsteen, U2, Van Halen, White Snake, The Who, Yes, ZZ Top, et cetera ...

I mean, they were all great bands in their day; but they are not the only rock bands that ever were.

You're sorta missing the point because I'm not really discussing what you like or don't like.

I'm talking about how one's opinion is informed by what they've been exposed to. If your only exposure to rock music was Five Finger Death Punch and Nickleback you'd probably think rock music is f*****g terrible.

If your only exposure to death metal is bands that sing about rape, torture and misogyny you'd probably assume the entire genre is like that (instead it's more like a quarter of the genre).

If your only exposure to hip-hop is based on superficial experiences with a handful of artists that break the Top 40 you're going to have a very superficial familiarity towards the genre. There's definitely stuff that fits your understanding and I don't expect you to feel obliged to dig deeper but that doesn't mean your understanding is accurate.

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08 Nov 2021, 10:51 am

cyberdad wrote:

Sorry stand corrected, Travis Scott does encourage his crowds to get rowdy, Looks like he's "numero uno" to get sued by the parents of the dead children,

He's been banned from other venues such as Arkansas for inciting crowds to push forward.

He was arrested here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.5newso ... e12e5856bd

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Fnord
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08 Nov 2021, 11:23 am

Off Topic

funeralxempire wrote:

... I'm not really discussing what you like or don't like.

I'm talking about how one's opinion is informed by what they've been exposed to. If your only exposure to rock music was Five Finger Death Punch and Nickleback you'd probably think rock music is f*****g terrible...

Now I get it. Sure, if I had heard only one song each from those two groups, and had been told that they were representative of their entire genre, then I might be inclined to dismiss their genre entirely.

However, there are more than one "rap/hip-hop/house/urban-contemporary" stations here in the Los Angeles area, and I sometimes stop and listen to what they are playing -- random stations at random times -- and I consistently hear lyrics focused on drugs and violence (especially against women and cops), and indifference to the pain and suffering of others.

If you were to randomly pick one jelly bean from each of several random containers, and the jelly beans you picked were all red, you might think that all of the jars contained nothing but red jelly beans. This is the same concept I am referring to when I dismiss the genres of music that was featured at Astroworld Music Fest in Houston.

funeralxempire
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08 Nov 2021, 11:38 am

Fnord wrote:

Off Topic

funeralxempire wrote:

Now I get it. Sure, if I had heard only one song each from those two groups, and had been told that they were representative of their entire genre, then I might be inclined to dismiss their genre entirely.

However, there are more than one "rap/hip-hop/house/urban-contemporary" stations here in the Los Angeles area, and I sometimes stop and listen to what they are playing -- random stations at random times -- and I consistently hear lyrics focused on drugs and violence (especially against women and cops), and indifference to the pain and suffering of others.

If you were to randomly pick one jelly bean from each of several random containers, and the jelly beans you picked were all red, you might think that all of the jars contained nothing but red jelly beans. This is the same concept I am referring to when I dismiss the genre of music that was featured at Astroworld Music Fest in Houston.

Definitely, it's not the fault of someone who's only had casual exposure that certain selection biases add up to mean stuff like that is more likely to be one's superficial experience with the genre. Artists face pressure from peers and gatekeepers to project a certain image (not unlike how metal bands tend to face peer pressure to be serious and macho) and artists who fit certain patterns are more likely to have an easier time getting exposure.

That said, there's lots of acts like Deltron 3030 or A Tribe Called Quest that mostly avoid those tropes. There's also acts like Jedi Mind Tricks who seem to wobble back and forth between embracing them and bucking them. Further, there's acts like Immortal Technique or Public Enemy that describe violence but don't really glorify it and instead discuss it and it's effects in social and political contexts, even among stuff that might be said to glorify criminal activity there's acts like Griselda who also offer commentary on how society shapes young men to pursue the plug lifestyle despite knowing they'll basically be disposable to everyone else they work with, how it's a dangerous, high-investment and dehumanizing trap of a lifestyle to end up in, etc. Lots of songs that mention loved ones and relatives dying too young over stupid s**t, songs that mention not wanting his daughter to end up married to some plug, etc.

There's also lots of stuff that's basically RnB but rapped instead of sung.

IsabellaLinton
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08 Nov 2021, 11:40 am

Misslizard wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

He was arrested here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.5newso ... e12e5856bd

I believe he's going to be arrested again, for negligence at Astroworld.

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Misslizard
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08 Nov 2021, 12:40 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

He was arrested here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.5newso ... e12e5856bd

I believe he's going to be arrested again, for negligence at Astroworld.

I hope so, they didn’t do much here except fine him and release.

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cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 7:42 pm

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Given the genre of the "music", what else could anyone reasonably expect?

What exactly does the genre of music have to do with anything?

This particular genre features violence and indifference to suffering in others.

What genre are you talking about??

A concert by mainstream rock band Pearl Jam in the Roskilde music festival in Denmark in 2000 resulted in 9 deaths. Their music isn't rap or hiphop.

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08 Nov 2021, 7:48 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

He was arrested here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.5newso ... e12e5856bd

I believe he's going to be arrested again, for negligence at Astroworld.

I think he couldn't have missed the crowd chanting "stop the music" and should have ceased and desisted. There is a fine line between getting the crowd engaged (Scott is by no means the only musician to do this) and avoiding a riot.

Heavy metal and "Indi" Rock concert moshpits give parent's nightmares. Many people are injured, hurt or sexually assaulted or overdose on drugs at music festivals around the world. Enforced crowd control will drive kids to go to illegal concerts or raves.

cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm

Misslizard wrote:

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

He was arrested here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.5newso ... e12e5856bd

I believe he's going to be arrested again, for negligence at Astroworld.

I hope so, they didn’t do much here except fine him and release.

Pearl Jam and "the Who" also drove concert goers to get killed and didn't face the courts. I think crowd control is ultimately the responsibility of the music festival organisers. There is already an issue with young kids dying from drug overdoses at concerts.

IsabellaLinton
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08 Nov 2021, 8:10 pm

He was encouraging people to rush the stage, and excited that it was oversold.

In the link I provided there are young adults pleading with a lighting man to stop the show and they were ignored.

I heard that the headliner is married to someone rich and famous, and seems to have an attitude.

I've never heard of him but I can imagine he's going down hard for what happened.

From ScoreMore (one of the promoters):

Trigger Warnings:

Graphic footage:

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cyberdad
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08 Nov 2021, 8:35 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Trigger Warnings:

Graphic footage:

There's a lot of podcasts on this now. If he is charged with anything then he'll be the first entertainer in history to be charged with inciting a crowd. It would create a massive precedence.

IsabellaLinton
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08 Nov 2021, 9:04 pm

Even if he didn't incite, he didn't stop the show or allow the crowd to disperse safely.

Live Nation's been sued many times before for violation of safety laws.

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