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Mike Pence: "President Trump is Wrong; I Had No Right"

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VegetableMan
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05 Feb 2022, 2:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
If Charles Manson were alive today, and spoke out against Trump, I suspect there would people pleading for his parole.
If Charles Manson were alive today, I would wish him dead.
It was just simple hyperbole to make s point.  Do you even know Pence's record as governor of Indiana? It wasn't pretty. He was very anti-LGBTQ rights.
Do you even care that I am no longer interested in discussions with you?




Here's a thought: Perhaps you should stop responding to my posts like you just did above. It's quite simple. Don't want to engage with me? Stop responding to my posts. That'll ease your frustration immensely, I suspect.

Try it now, then everything will be alright in your echo chamber.


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VegetableMan
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05 Feb 2022, 2:08 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Please drop the personal quarrel, guys - rather ignore posts that you don't consider worthy of a response. Thanks.

Manson shouldn't have been mentioned in this thread to begin with and any such references are not relevant to the topic.


Well, It was a tongue in cheek comment, and like I said, was hyperbolic.


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VegetableMan
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05 Feb 2022, 2:21 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
I can't imagine them fielding him. People on the LGBTQ spectrum would rather stay away than vote for him if they don't plan on voting for the Democrats. Yes, he'd please the majority in the bible belt but doesn't have what it takes to be a Number One candidate.


It's not just the Bible belt. There are huge swaths of rural America all over who support the Christian Right. I live in the corn belt way up here in Illinois. It's a very conservative area.


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05 Feb 2022, 2:49 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I can't imagine them fielding him. People on the LGBTQ spectrum would rather stay away than vote for him if they don't plan on voting for the Democrats. Yes, he'd please the majority in the bible belt but doesn't have what it takes to be a Number One candidate.


It's not just the Bible belt. There are huge swaths of rural America all over who support the Christian Right. I live in the corn belt way up here in Illinois. It's a very conservative area.


And the only area that is even more conservative than the Corn Belt is PA Dutch Country. Compared to the Midwest corn belt, central PA, aside from the Amish and Mennonites, are John Birchers.



VegetableMan
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05 Feb 2022, 3:14 pm

MuddRM wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I can't imagine them fielding him. People on the LGBTQ spectrum would rather stay away than vote for him if they don't plan on voting for the Democrats. Yes, he'd please the majority in the bible belt but doesn't have what it takes to be a Number One candidate.


It's not just the Bible belt. There are huge swaths of rural America all over who support the Christian Right. I live in the corn belt way up here in Illinois. It's a very conservative area.


And the only area that is even more conservative than the Corn Belt is PA Dutch Country. Compared to the Midwest corn belt, central PA, aside from the Amish and Mennonites, are John Birchers.


True. Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if Pence would be pushed forward and actually win. That's what happens when you have two parties that have turned their backs on the people in favor of the corporate donor class. It's not an encouraging time for the U.S.


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05 Feb 2022, 6:16 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
If Charles Manson were alive today, and spoke out against Trump, I suspect there would people pleading for his parole.
If Charles Manson were alive today, I would wish him dead.


It was just simple hyperbole to make s point.

Do you even know Pence's record as governor of Indiana? It wasn't pretty. He was very anti-LGBTQ rights.


That’s why I didn’t vote for Trump.


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05 Feb 2022, 6:26 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
If Charles Manson were alive today, and spoke out against Trump, I suspect there would people pleading for his parole.
If Charles Manson were alive today, I would wish him dead.


It was just simple hyperbole to make s point.

Do you even know Pence's record as governor of Indiana? It wasn't pretty. He was very anti-LGBTQ rights.


That’s why I didn’t vote for Trump.


These reasons are also why my family & I didn't vote for Trump back in 2016 and 2020.


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05 Feb 2022, 7:45 pm

I'm a Hoosier.
Pence the man, not the governor or VP, is known personally by several in my social circles.
I grew up immersed in the culture of the "evangelical christian right."
I couldn't help but note the signature that defined tyranny as the intentional removal of nuance.
And there are a lot of simplistic, unnuanced, caricatures and accusations represented here.

:!: Happy to discuss :!:



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05 Feb 2022, 8:24 pm

If Pence and Harris are the "best" the two main parties can offer, then what about the other parties?



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05 Feb 2022, 8:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
If Pence and Harris are the "best" the two main parties can offer, then what about the other parties?


If a progressive like Bernie or the members of the Squad can’t win the Democratic primary, what makes people think the Green Party can win in the general election?

The Libertarians, other than their advocacy for smaller government, have no other cohesive ideology, and are more splintered than the Big 2.

Peace and Freedom isn’t even on the ballot in most states.

The Constitution and Prohibition Parties make Mike Pence look like AOC.

Communist Party? Puh-leeze. Huge swaths of the country think Biden is a communist, and still hold on to the 1950s McCarthy-esque mindset.


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07 Feb 2022, 7:26 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

You're veering into non sequitur territory. Let me sum up what I meant: It's a frightening place we find ourselves in. Voting for horrible candidates simply because they took on Trump will only ensure the U.S. will continue to decline.


It will depend on who the alternatives are, won't it?

For the all reasons I would not want Pence as a president, there is one good thing we do now all know about him: when push comes to shove, he will follow the law and constitution. That is one pretty darn important trait to have in a president, especially when more and more members of the GOP are proving they are willing to chuck the law and the constitution in order to stay in the Cult of Trump.

The hope will, of course, be that he won't be the only one in the race we could say that about.

But ... history tells us that all great nations are destined to decline, and it feels like we've watched the US cross over the line in my lifetime. Precisely when it started is hard to pinpoint, it's just wholly evident in the past 4 years that it did.


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07 Feb 2022, 8:12 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:

You're veering into non sequitur territory. Let me sum up what I meant: It's a frightening place we find ourselves in. Voting for horrible candidates simply because they took on Trump will only ensure the U.S. will continue to decline.


It will depend on who the alternatives are, won't it?

For the all reasons I would not want Pence as a president, there is one good thing we do now all know about him: when push comes to shove, he will follow the law and constitution. That is one pretty darn important trait to have in a president, especially when more and more members of the GOP are proving they are willing to chuck the law and the constitution in order to stay in the Cult of Trump.

The hope will, of course, be that he won't be the only one in the race we could say that about.

But ... history tells us that all great nations are destined to decline, and it feels like we've watched the US cross over the line in my lifetime. Precisely when it started is hard to pinpoint, it's just wholly evident in the past 4 years that it did.


As long as the alternatives are invested in maintaining the corporate state, it's not going to make any difference in the long run. No good candidates have a chance of making it because the system will not allow them to rise to the top.

I don't believe voting can have any real effect in reversing the course at this point. It's going to take a massive resistance by the people to do that. And the first step is educating ourselves on the mechanics of the system we're dealing with. We're just watching history repeating itself. If we don't learn from it, we're doomed.

We were in decline ling before the last four years. Trump should have been a wake up call. But now we're going to sleep again and feeding the disease that produced him steroids. I have little hope for the future.


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07 Feb 2022, 8:43 pm

I'm waiting for somebody to post how Pence was completely wrong not to attempt rejecting the election outcome.


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07 Feb 2022, 9:14 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:

You're veering into non sequitur territory. Let me sum up what I meant: It's a frightening place we find ourselves in. Voting for horrible candidates simply because they took on Trump will only ensure the U.S. will continue to decline.


It will depend on who the alternatives are, won't it?

For the all reasons I would not want Pence as a president, there is one good thing we do now all know about him: when push comes to shove, he will follow the law and constitution. That is one pretty darn important trait to have in a president, especially when more and more members of the GOP are proving they are willing to chuck the law and the constitution in order to stay in the Cult of Trump.

The hope will, of course, be that he won't be the only one in the race we could say that about.

But ... history tells us that all great nations are destined to decline, and it feels like we've watched the US cross over the line in my lifetime. Precisely when it started is hard to pinpoint, it's just wholly evident in the past 4 years that it did.


As long as the alternatives are invested in maintaining the corporate state, it's not going to make any difference in the long run. No good candidates have a chance of making it because the system will not allow them to rise to the top.

I don't believe voting can have any real effect in reversing the course at this point. It's going to take a massive resistance by the people to do that. And the first step is educating ourselves on the mechanics of the system we're dealing with. We're just watching history repeating itself. If we don't learn from it, we're doomed.

We were in decline ling before the last four years. Trump should have been a wake up call. But now we're going to sleep again and feeding the disease that produced him steroids. I have little hope for the future.


It does matter who wins in 2024. We have some chance of staying strong as a nation as long as our constitution and the rule of law survive. If Trump wins and succeeds in his desires to turn us into an autocracy, all that made us good will be lost.

I'm happy with good. I don't care about staying number 1. I would not risk the amazing experiment that has been the USA in the false hope of finding greatness from a narcissist. We can fix the things that ail us most, but not by believing in cult leaders. If our is up as number 1, it's up. That is the way of history. Getting greedy and trying to prolong it, instead of learning what "good" could look like, is deadly.

I agree the decline was happening before the cracks jumped into view, but now that the cracks are fully in view, we can't risk becoming an autocracy. We came so perilously close.


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08 Feb 2022, 6:23 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:

You're veering into non sequitur territory. Let me sum up what I meant: It's a frightening place we find ourselves in. Voting for horrible candidates simply because they took on Trump will only ensure the U.S. will continue to decline.


It will depend on who the alternatives are, won't it?

For the all reasons I would not want Pence as a president, there is one good thing we do now all know about him: when push comes to shove, he will follow the law and constitution. That is one pretty darn important trait to have in a president, especially when more and more members of the GOP are proving they are willing to chuck the law and the constitution in order to stay in the Cult of Trump.

The hope will, of course, be that he won't be the only one in the race we could say that about.

But ... history tells us that all great nations are destined to decline, and it feels like we've watched the US cross over the line in my lifetime. Precisely when it started is hard to pinpoint, it's just wholly evident in the past 4 years that it did.


As long as the alternatives are invested in maintaining the corporate state, it's not going to make any difference in the long run. No good candidates have a chance of making it because the system will not allow them to rise to the top.

I don't believe voting can have any real effect in reversing the course at this point. It's going to take a massive resistance by the people to do that. And the first step is educating ourselves on the mechanics of the system we're dealing with. We're just watching history repeating itself. If we don't learn from it, we're doomed.

We were in decline ling before the last four years. Trump should have been a wake up call. But now we're going to sleep again and feeding the disease that produced him steroids. I have little hope for the future.


It does matter who wins in 2024. We have some chance of staying strong as a nation as long as our constitution and the rule of law survive. If Trump wins and succeeds in his desires to turn us into an autocracy, all that made us good will be lost.

I'm happy with good. I don't care about staying number 1. I would not risk the amazing experiment that has been the USA in the false hope of finding greatness from a narcissist. We can fix the things that ail us most, but not by believing in cult leaders. If our is up as number 1, it's up. That is the way of history. Getting greedy and trying to prolong it, instead of learning what "good" could look like, is deadly.

I agree the decline was happening before the cracks jumped into view, but now that the cracks are fully in view, we can't risk becoming an autocracy. We came so perilously close.


I don't think you understand the gravity of what will happen when the system collapses. It won't be fun. If we continue to vote for politicians who will only serve the ruling elite, it's game over. Having faith in a system thst cannot be reformed from within is a very dangerous mindset.

A very real possibility -- perhaps even a certainty according to some economic experts-- is that the U.S. dollar will be dropped as the world currency. That will likely result in a crippling depression as bad or worse as the one that occurred in the 1930s. That won't be "good" at all.

If we don't stop playing the game we've all been programmed to play, i.e., voting for the lesser of two evils, the future will be very bleak indeed.


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08 Feb 2022, 7:55 am

I get the impression that Pence and Trump have high fived each other over this.