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Cops watch man drown

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cyberdad
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10 Jun 2022, 9:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



If you had been there, what would you have done?


I'd have demanded the cops do their damn job!


^^^ It's a no brainer



Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 9:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



If you had been there, what would you have done?


I'd have demanded the cops do their damn job!


What if you were there but the cops weren't? What would you have done?



kitesandtrainsandcats
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10 Jun 2022, 9:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point.

Incorrect, you are the one who has missed the point: the police were not trained in water rescue; & the Red Cross, the US Coast Guard, a lifeguard association, and at least one firefighter association I found material from, stress that untrained rescuers should not go in the water to attempt a rescue.

Quote:
Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.

Incorrect, they called for a boat & followed him via a walkway and bridge as their procedure and several procedures mentioned above call for.
And again, they were not trained in water rescue.

:arrow: Also, note that several articles mention the city is now looking at placing flotation devices and rescue aids at the location Because There Were None.

:arrow: finally, from Royal Life Saving Society Australia, because I remember you may be from Australia,
https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/stay ... cue-safely
Quote:
A panicked, drowning person will reach out and, if given the opportunity, climb all over you in their attempt to stay afloat. Once this happens it is very difficult to break free, even for strong swimmers or those skilled in aquatic rescue techniques. There is a real risk of both of you drowning.


:arrow: also on the above page with bold effect applied by me,
Quote:
It is here that the rescuer should minimise danger to themselves by carrying out the safest form of rescue possible. Royal Life Saving teaches different types of rescue, listed here with most safe first and the least safe last:

Talk
Reach
Throw
Wade
Row
Swim (accompanied rescue)
Non-contact tow
Contact tow

The rescuer should consider:

Can I talk to the person, calming them down and directing them to a safer location?
Is there something on hand that I could use to reach the person, such as a rope, stick, or towel?
Is there something I could throw to the person to aid their buoyancy, such as a lifejacket, kickboard, or esky (cooler) lid?
Can I wade out to the person and then reach out to give them a rope, stick or towel to pull them to safety?
Is there a canoe or something similar I can row out and have them hold on to?
Can I swim out to them and, while keeping a safe distance, pass them a buoyancy aid and accompany them to safety, encouraging and instructing them?
Can I swim out to them and, while keeping a safe distance, hand them a buoyancy aid and tow them back to safety? (non-contact tow)
If all else has failed, do I know how to perform a contact tow to get them back to safety? Do I have the strength, skill and fitness to do this while ensuring my own safety is the number one priority? Am I capable of dealing with a panicked person wanting to grab hold of me?


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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 10 Jun 2022, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 9:25 pm

It's ironic to me that those who go on about education and science, skip applying such to keep saying "they didn't do their job!".



Persephone29
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10 Jun 2022, 9:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



So, in your estimation the only worthwhile outcome should have been one drowned homeless person and one drowned cop? Then you'd be happy?


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Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 9:49 pm

Apparently if the man had been a drunk millionaire, they would have jumped in without a second thought.



cyberdad
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10 Jun 2022, 9:52 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



So, in your estimation the only worthwhile outcome should have been one drowned homeless person and one drowned cop? Then you'd be happy?


I'll pose a question since you (and a few others here) believe these cops were blameless and conducted themselves correctly.

Q. Why were all the cops present put on administrative leave? is that standard procedure for cops doing their job?
Seems strange if it's "obvious" they are little angels huh.



Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 10:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



So, in your estimation the only worthwhile outcome should have been one drowned homeless person and one drowned cop? Then you'd be happy?


I'll pose a question since you (and a few others here) believe these cops were blameless and conducted themselves correctly.

Q. Why were all the cops present put on administrative leave? is that standard procedure for cops doing their job?
Seems strange if it's "obvious" they are little angels huh.


A. The three officers who responded to the call and were present when Bickings drowned are on "non-disciplinary paid administrative leave" as the investigations unfold, which officials say is standard practice.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/08/11038108 ... %20victims.

Here's a challenge for you; Find one expert in water rescue saying they did wrong. I've provided several hands on experts saying they did right. Now it's your turn.



Persephone29
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10 Jun 2022, 10:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



So, in your estimation the only worthwhile outcome should have been one drowned homeless person and one drowned cop? Then you'd be happy?


I'll pose a question since you (and a few others here) believe these cops were blameless and conducted themselves correctly.

Q. Why were all the cops present put on administrative leave? is that standard procedure for cops doing their job?
Seems strange if it's "obvious" they are little angels huh.


The same reason the teacher who works next door to us was put on administrative leave. A kid pushed him, knocked his shoulder out of socket. She then said he pushed her and they put him on paid administrative leave while they investigated. He kicked back, redid his whole garden, had shoulder surgery, kept getting a paycheck. They pulled the footage, the kid was lying the whole time. He got a 3 month paid leave and bar the injury, he was happy as hell. It's SOP to put people on AL if they are 'accused' of something, doesn't mean they are guilty.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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10 Jun 2022, 10:19 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Here's a challenge for you; Find one expert in water rescue saying they did wrong. I've provided several hands on experts saying they did right. Now it's your turn.


Dunno about you, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath until such are found and presented. :lol:


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Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 10:20 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



So, in your estimation the only worthwhile outcome should have been one drowned homeless person and one drowned cop? Then you'd be happy?


I'll pose a question since you (and a few others here) believe these cops were blameless and conducted themselves correctly.

Q. Why were all the cops present put on administrative leave? is that standard procedure for cops doing their job?
Seems strange if it's "obvious" they are little angels huh.


The same reason the teacher who works next door to us was put on administrative leave. A kid pushed him, knocked his shoulder out of socket. She then said he pushed her and they put him on paid administrative leave while they investigated. He kicked back, redid his whole garden, had shoulder surgery, kept getting a paycheck. They pulled the footage, the kid was lying the whole time. He got a 3 month paid leave and bar the injury, he was happy as hell. It's SOP to put people on AL if they are 'accused' of something, doesn't mean they are guilty.


Wait... what happened to guilty until proven innocent?



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10 Jun 2022, 11:24 pm

The cops legally have no duty to intervene, their duties don't actually include serving or protecting the public.



Also, ACAB.


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Kraichgauer
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10 Jun 2022, 11:26 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You are all missing the point. The man was probably mentally ill, He was not in full control of his faculties. I suspect all those cops knew. The fact they chose not to dive in to save him says more about their bias because he was homeless and therefore worthless (in their eyes) rather than some type of measured evaluation about the safety of the situation.

Please stop defending these people. They didn't even try.



If you had been there, what would you have done?


I'd have demanded the cops do their damn job!


What if you were there but the cops weren't? What would you have done?


Well, as I can't swim, but my wife can, I'd ask her to do something! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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cyberdad
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10 Jun 2022, 11:56 pm

it's funny but just type "police" in google and the first thing that pops up is "put on administrative leave"



cyberdad
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11 Jun 2022, 12:05 am

funeralxempire wrote:
The cops legally have no duty to intervene, their duties don't actually include serving or protecting the public.


That's really assuring to the public that the oath police officer take is actually a joke
https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/f ... 11_Web.pdf
An oath is a solemn pledge someone makes when they sincerely intend to do what they say:

Honor...

means that one's word is given as a guarantee.

Betray...

is defined as breaking faith with the public trust.

Badge...

is the symbol of your office.

Integrity...

is being the same person in both private and public life.

Character...

means the qualities that distinguish an individual.

Public Trust...

is a charge of duty imposed in faith toward those you serve.

Courage...

is having the strength to withstand unethical pressure, fear or danger.

Accountability...

means that you are answerable and responsible to your oath of office.

Community...

is the jurisdiction and citizens served.


The Oath of Honor

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve.

After a police officer takes his oath of Office, they are given a badge. The badge is to be worn over the heart for two reasons:

to ever remind them of their pledge to protect
because the left arm was the arm that often held the coat of arms shield of knights… protecting the heart and leaving the dominant hand to fight with a weapon.



cyberdad
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11 Jun 2022, 12:21 am

Why not ask a cop what they do.



ex-cop is very honesty and open about what happens to their psychology when they put on the uniform.