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Hadron
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14 Sep 2007, 3:44 pm

ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
...There are more people in jail under Labour than the Tories...

That fact, on its own, means little, Hadron.

It means a lot when you compare it with reported crime rates. A greater percentage of crimes are being resolved, even more when you take into account the reduced jail sentences.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:51 pm

Hadron wrote:
No. I am pointing out their attitudes, and how a large section of them do not want to live here. As for faith, people choose to follow it, so they can be held to account for what they choose to believe. I hate the way they can hide under some sancrosanct delusion called a religion. If you are going to attack facism, stop being selective about it. Quite a fair bit of Islamic teaching is on par with the BNP, some of it on par with the NF. Some people need to wake up and move into the twenty first century, quite a lot of Muslims dont seem to have ideologically got out of the 15th.


I'm not being selective. You have extremists in any ideology. As I've said before I can not understand people who blindly follow any religious or political ideology. Extremist factions come along and bastardise religions for their own ends. Yes, you are correct in that the extremist islamists have much in common with fascist ideology. This is something that is totally lost on the BNP.


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Last edited by autodidact on 14 Sep 2007, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ascan
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14 Sep 2007, 3:52 pm

Hadron wrote:
ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
...There are more people in jail under Labour than the Tories...

That fact, on its own, means little, Hadron.

It means a lot when you compare it with reported crime rates. A greater percentage of crimes are being resolved, even more when you take into account the reduced jail sentences.

Well, you need to be very careful interpreting those kind of statistics. For example, a greater percentage of crimes may be solved because the government has criminalised many things that are easy to prosecute. Also, the methods of recording change regularly, so you need to be careful you're comparing like with like. Another point is that many people don't bother reporting certain crimes because they know the police aren't much help.

Statistics aside, in many areas crime is a problem. In certain areas it is directly related to immigration.



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14 Sep 2007, 3:55 pm

autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.



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14 Sep 2007, 4:05 pm

ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.


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14 Sep 2007, 4:10 pm

autodidact wrote:
..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

I was born here. So were my parents, and their parents, and theirs back as far as records go. I'm not some Johnny-come-lately foreigner. I belong here by default. They don't.

Is that clear?



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14 Sep 2007, 4:12 pm

ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

I was born here. So were my parents, and their parents, and theirs back as far as records go. I'm not some Johnny-come-lately foreigner. I belong here by default. They don't.

Is that clear?


All that is clear is that you are a total bigot and a disgrace to this country :evil: :evil: :evil: I can't believe that you used the phrase 'Johnny-come-lately foreigner' Just shows how pathetic you are.


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Hadron
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14 Sep 2007, 4:25 pm

ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
ascan wrote:
Hadron wrote:
...There are more people in jail under Labour than the Tories...

That fact, on its own, means little, Hadron.

It means a lot when you compare it with reported crime rates. A greater percentage of crimes are being resolved, even more when you take into account the reduced jail sentences.

Well, you need to be very careful interpreting those kind of statistics. For example, a greater percentage of crimes may be solved because the government has criminalised many things that are easy to prosecute. Also, the methods of recording change regularly, so you need to be careful you're comparing like with like. Another point is that many people don't bother reporting certain crimes because they know the police aren't much help.

Statistics aside, in many areas crime is a problem. In certain areas it is directly related to immigration.

You do have to be careful with those statistics true, but i dont have the whole lot to hand, nor a few years to do a detailed analysis on it.

If you could prove crime was related to immigration, I would be impressed though.



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14 Sep 2007, 4:26 pm

autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.



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14 Sep 2007, 4:35 pm

Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable


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Hadron
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14 Sep 2007, 4:56 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.



autodidact
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14 Sep 2007, 5:25 pm

Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia;

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī‘ah) is the dynamic body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings of Muhammad), ijma, qiyas and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.


See the last bit - 'There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia' this means that every extremist loony is free to interpret the Qur'an in their own way and pervert it for their own ends. Sharia is certainly used as justification by some for all sorts of human rights abuses - All religions use faith as justification for violence, including christianity. Is what the west have done in Afganistan and Iraq any less worse? How about standing back and letting mass genocide happen in Africa?

All societies, institutions, social groups and general 'sheep' contain those disposed to illogical acts of violence and oppression. There is no (or very little) tollerance of the individual. If I hate anyone, I hate 'Haters' who make it their mission in life to cause pain and misery to others. Doesn't matter what race or religion or politics they have. This whole thing of people taking sides against one another is stupid. MUSLIMS (plural) didn't blow up the towers. Some very sad individuals who were incapable of thinking for themselves (and perverted the meaning of their god) did.


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Hadron
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14 Sep 2007, 6:23 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia;

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī‘ah) is the dynamic body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings of Muhammad), ijma, qiyas and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.


See the last bit - 'There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia' this means that every extremist loony is free to interpret the Qur'an in their own way and pervert it for their own ends. Sharia is certainly used as justification by some for all sorts of human rights abuses - All religions use faith as justification for violence, including christianity. Is what the west have done in Afganistan and Iraq any less worse? How about standing back and letting mass genocide happen in Africa?

All societies, institutions, social groups and general 'sheep' contain those disposed to illogical acts of violence and oppression. There is no (or very little) tollerance of the individual. If I hate anyone, I hate 'Haters' who make it their mission in life to cause pain and misery to others. Doesn't matter what race or religion or politics they have. This whole thing of people taking sides against one another is stupid. MUSLIMS (plural) didn't blow up the towers. Some very sad individuals who were incapable of thinking for themselves (and perverted the meaning of their god) did.

Have you heard of something called a schism? Also bear in mind the people who write wiki are biased.



autodidact
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14 Sep 2007, 6:51 pm

Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia;

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī‘ah) is the dynamic body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings of Muhammad), ijma, qiyas and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.


See the last bit - 'There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia' this means that every extremist loony is free to interpret the Qur'an in their own way and pervert it for their own ends. Sharia is certainly used as justification by some for all sorts of human rights abuses - All religions use faith as justification for violence, including christianity. Is what the west have done in Afganistan and Iraq any less worse? How about standing back and letting mass genocide happen in Africa?

All societies, institutions, social groups and general 'sheep' contain those disposed to illogical acts of violence and oppression. There is no (or very little) tollerance of the individual. If I hate anyone, I hate 'Haters' who make it their mission in life to cause pain and misery to others. Doesn't matter what race or religion or politics they have. This whole thing of people taking sides against one another is stupid. MUSLIMS (plural) didn't blow up the towers. Some very sad individuals who were incapable of thinking for themselves (and perverted the meaning of their god) did.


Have you heard of something called a schism? Also bear in mind the people who write wiki are biased.


Yes :roll: your point being? A schism is a divide between people or groups due to their opinions and beliefs. Everyone is biased! unless you happen to have no opinions about anything whatsoever. Just because you happen to believe in a certain god doesn't automatically mean that you condone or participate in torture, oppression and murder.


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Last edited by autodidact on 14 Sep 2007, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hadron
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14 Sep 2007, 6:55 pm

autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia;

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī‘ah) is the dynamic body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings of Muhammad), ijma, qiyas and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.


See the last bit - 'There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia' this means that every extremist loony is free to interpret the Qur'an in their own way and pervert it for their own ends. Sharia is certainly used as justification by some for all sorts of human rights abuses - All religions use faith as justification for violence, including christianity. Is what the west have done in Afganistan and Iraq any less worse? How about standing back and letting mass genocide happen in Africa?

All societies, institutions, social groups and general 'sheep' contain those disposed to illogical acts of violence and oppression. There is no (or very little) tollerance of the individual. If I hate anyone, I hate 'Haters' who make it their mission in life to cause pain and misery to others. Doesn't matter what race or religion or politics they have. This whole thing of people taking sides against one another is stupid. MUSLIMS (plural) didn't blow up the towers. Some very sad individuals who were incapable of thinking for themselves (and perverted the meaning of their god) did.


Have you heard of something called a schism? Also bear in mind the people who write wiki are biased.


Yes :roll: your point being? A schism is a divide between people or groups due to their opinions and beliefs. Everyone is biased! unless you happen to have no opinions about anything whatsoever. Just because you happen to believe in a certain god doesn't mean that you condone or participate in torture, oppression and murder.

Oh for heavens sake. Look at what actually happens in Arab countries with sharia law, and tell me that it is not facism. Women getting stoned to death for adultery, need I go on.



autodidact
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14 Sep 2007, 7:27 pm

Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
Hadron wrote:
autodidact wrote:
ascan wrote:
autodidact wrote:
... You have extremists in any ideology...

But the brand who go flying planes in to high-rise buildings are best kept out of the country.


..along with those who would persecute innocent people on religous grounds, tarring them as fanatics.

If they were innocent, which for the ones who want Sharia in this country are clearly not.


Extremists of all types who bully and persecute their fellow man are despicable

Islam has some very nasty elements that are commonly accepted. You havent made it clear where you stand on Sharia yet.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia;

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī‘ah) is the dynamic body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings of Muhammad), ijma, qiyas and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.


See the last bit - 'There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia' this means that every extremist loony is free to interpret the Qur'an in their own way and pervert it for their own ends. Sharia is certainly used as justification by some for all sorts of human rights abuses - All religions use faith as justification for violence, including christianity. Is what the west have done in Afganistan and Iraq any less worse? How about standing back and letting mass genocide happen in Africa?

All societies, institutions, social groups and general 'sheep' contain those disposed to illogical acts of violence and oppression. There is no (or very little) tollerance of the individual. If I hate anyone, I hate 'Haters' who make it their mission in life to cause pain and misery to others. Doesn't matter what race or religion or politics they have. This whole thing of people taking sides against one another is stupid. MUSLIMS (plural) didn't blow up the towers. Some very sad individuals who were incapable of thinking for themselves (and perverted the meaning of their god) did.


Have you heard of something called a schism? Also bear in mind the people who write wiki are biased.


Yes :roll: your point being? A schism is a divide between people or groups due to their opinions and beliefs. Everyone is biased! unless you happen to have no opinions about anything whatsoever. Just because you happen to believe in a certain god doesn't mean that you condone or participate in torture, oppression and murder.


Oh for heavens sake. Look at what actually happens in Arab countries with sharia law, and tell me that it is not facism. Women getting stoned to death for adultery, need I go on.


Yes granted. This is totalitarianism and it is WRONG. They are using religon as justification for murder. To equate all muslims (or a large proportion of them) with these sort of actions is ridiculous - look at the systematic rape, pillage and murder that has been committed by westerners in the name of Christianity, its been going on for centuries. Look at Bush and going on about an 'axis of evil' and then bombing the f**k out of Iraq. Look at our own empire! - No one group or country has a monopoly on this. What about the 'good christians' that blow up abortion clinics or others that beat blacks, jews and gay people to death? or priests that rape young boys - do you therefore think that catholicism is evil?

Anyone who is stupid enough to buy so far into any ideology, political or religous that it stops them behaving with kindness and respect to others is a poor excuse for a human being. We are all acountable for our actions. I wish people would stop using religon and politics as an excuse for hate.


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