US sets record for most adults in jail or prison

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The UKs so-called "Labour Party" really isn't "leftist" anymore. Based On what I know about UK politics the Labour Party has evolved into a Clinton-style "third way" centrist party with a paternalistic, authoritarian streak. Oddly enough, that seems to have made your Conservatives trend more Libertarian.

Exactly. Inmates that can be rehabilitated should be rehabilitated and allowed to become good citizens and productive members of society. I'm of the opinion that everyone has screwed up at some point in our lives that such mistakes shouldn't be held against people who commit minor crimes for all eternity just because a stupid politician wants to use the "though on crime" talking point to get re-elected. Leave the harsh prison sentences for people that are actually dangerous.

I'd rather do some form of public humiliation, hurting a person's ego can be just as good or even better then physical pain. Also, I think public beatings are a bad social influence, it wasn't that long ago that kids were beaten and paddled as punishment.

They are still too left for my liking, and you don't have to dig deep to see that the malignant tumour of 70's socialism hasn't been fully excised. Just as their earlier incarnation, they've spent countless billions of taxpayers' money to fund the lives of the feckless, the foreign and the downright criminal, at the expense of the rest of us, and are now attempting to defer their inevitable demise by taxing the shirts from our backs.

Indeed, on top of that, they've incrementally removed our individual freedoms in the name of that sacred cow of western socialism: equality. Moreover, they're in the process of amalgamating us with a bunch of inveterate leftists across the Channel in what will make the USSR look like a tea party at the Clintons' ranch, and see ol' Jo' Stalin's formaldehyde-filled corpse turn green with envy .

They're leftist. End of story.


And the world was a better place, Odin. When I was a kid, if you caused disruption at school you risked a whack. If you stole, you risked the same. If you stood outside someone's house vandalising their property, you'd expect to get beaten black and blue. These days adults can't look at a kid without being accused of abuse. Kids can do what they want. Teenagers can do what they want, and they grow up into adults who think they can do what they want.

LOL, "New Labor" in the UK and the "New Democrats" here in the US are nothing but suck-ups for the multinational corporations. They are Neo-Liberals passing themselves off as Progressives.



Physical punishment does nothing but create a culture of violence in which it is OK for a drunk husband to beat his wife and kids and it is OK for kids to bully each other. violence only leads to hate, resentment, and more violence.

I don't believe that, why do you? What convinces you that's the case?

Clearly, we need to be locking up some of these criminals while they're still teenagers.
Our problem is we're waiting too long!

If that's true, the world must have been really violent and dangerous a few decades ago.

I agree. There are way too many people in prison

(If I use the wrong form of their/there or spell it wrong sorry bad w/ grammar)

Something needs to be done about this. I'm a teenager but I think that they should test people for mental illness/learning disabilities/emotional disorders/autism and get them help. Not put them in prison (If some of the stuff I suggest from this point on grosses you out sorry) The drug solution is simple, legallize drugs This will eliminate the illegal selling of drugs, so they can get them like cigarrettes, alchohol and cut down on the crime. Knowone will bother selling them illegally anymore.(The amount of money you can get for selling drugs is ridiculous) Treatments should be given to addicts, not prison time. (I believe drugs are legal in Denmark ) Also, they should not have people sitting for years on death row! Make sure they are guilty and kill them so they do not sit in prison for like 10-20+ years They should also eliminate putting sex offenders behind bars. Just castrate them/ remove sexual organs and release them This stuff may sound harsh but it will uncrowd the prisons. I think it is ridiculous that prisoners/welfare people live better in some ways than the middle class and all homeless people

The logic and reason that is otherwise applied to raising and teaching children.

What logic makes you believe that raising a child with violence would not lead them to apply violence the same way they experienced when they grown up.



It was, though not as extreme as you picture it. There has been a reduction in violence over the last 50 years, just as there's been a reduction in the use of corporeal punishment against children.

Lets take a look at how violence fits into society before answering that...

Violence is part of human society, and a necessary part, too. Our freedom (or what's left of it) was won using it. Unless we have aspirations of serfdom, we must be prepared to use it in the future both personally and nationally. On another level, violence can be fun: it can entertain, and it can challenge both physically and mentally. This will be lost on most women here, of course, and perhaps on some men, too, who have been emasculated by the increased feminisation of society by effete bleeding-heart liberals. But, think what you may, TV audience figures will testify to the popularity of a good fight.

In addition, violence needs to be used to maintain order in society. Under certain circumstances, for example, if you fail to comply with the orders of a police officer you will be shot. The state has various powers when it comes to violence against individuals, whether that be waterboarding at the invitation of the CIA in the US, or the use of watercanons and CS gas to quell rioting in France.

Most liberals will tell you that violence has no place in society; clearly they're talking out of their a***holes.

So, we get back to your question. As far as kids go, they need to be taught boundaries as regards behaviour, and should become familiar with what degree of violence is appropriate in particular situations. Just as in adult life we may think it acceptable for a police officer to use violence to control a situation, so it should be appropriate for parents or teachers to use a certain level of violence to control youngsters.

You see, I'm not just advocating violence (as in caning and spanking) to reduce antisocial behaviour, but also as a better introduction for young people to how the adult world works. We feed kids lie upon lie when it comes to violence. They're told how terrible it is to raise a finger against another human being whilst our government's raining high-explosives down on unfortunate civilians overseas, and our best-buddies across the Atlantic are torturing enemies of the state, and killing criminals with lethal injections.

...WEEE-EE-EE'RREE NUM-BER ONE ! !! !! !! !! !!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
AMERICA...We Kick ASS ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

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I think you are forgetting about the age of reason which led to the revolutions in the first place. It was thoughts that freed men not clubs. As for serfs they were the ones most likely to die on the battlefields for their lords and king. That said I don't think you need mass murder to become free. It's the power of being in control that leads to violence not some romantic image of the savage beast.



Yes violence is fun. I enjoy a good fight but I don't have grandeur visions of it being anything other than what it is. Which is useless entertainment unless of course your actually skilled in fighting. And by skilled i dont mean a couple of years at the Y. I think women enjoy violence as much as the next guy maybe even more so. Women are vicious dont let them fool you. Just look at females in nature; they are merciless and kill without impunity. There is something in the female nature that probably appreciates violence more than men considering that they often manipulate men to fight for them. I don't consider a man who doesn't like violence as emasculated; I just consider him a more rational one. He is smart enough not to fall in the female trap. By female trap I'm refering to the manipulatations described above. What about compassionate conservatism? Doesnt that emasculate men?




People who watch TV are the sorry saps that can't afford to do anything else. As long as what's on TV moves their pulse by a few beats it's considered good television.



Yeah and it's very controversial. Also you don't get shot for failing to comply to a police officer. You get shot if the cop thinks you have a deadly weapon and your going to kill them. Otherwise it's tasers and shooting out tires or just plain old fashion running after the guy. It's interesting that you state in order to be free we need violence yet obviously neither your nor I has the weapons at our disposal like our government does. Wouldn't it benefit the citizens if the government was actually less violent and the cops didn't even carry guns like in some other countries? Both the waterboarding and rioting are special cases. People don't riot everday but when they do it can be more deadly than a herd of wild animals. I don't think using gas to disperse a crowd can be considered an act of intentional violence when the goal is break up a large group of people who are hurting others or destroying property. Granted there can be and is controversy in the methods used by the state to accomplish this goal. Waterboarding is not a reliable method to obtain information out of somebody and to me sounds just as ridiculous as bringing back the rack. Physical torture doesn't work. I think history through the Spanish inquisition has proven that.




Are you part of a liberals club or something? Seriously you and me must not be talking to the same liberals becuase that just seems like a worn out old cliche that parents tell their children when they are caught fighting. I'm sure conservatives say the same BS to their own children. I can't imagine anyone actively encouraging violence but even Gandhi believed in violence for self defense purposes.



There is more than one way to skin a cat just as there is more than one way to control someone. I don't think the problem is so much that kids don't have boundaries so much as some kids and adults just enjoy or rely on violence a little bit more than others as a tool to get what they want or solve their problems. The hierarchy of control starts with the self and than family/social groups and the least the government. These hypothetical children you talk about may have different interpretations as to why those in authority have the power to use violence against them in the first place. Respect and understanding do not always go hand and hand. Also morally it would seem that the act of violence would have to be within reason of the person's inappropriate behavior. I think corporal punishment is looked down upon as a method of control for childrenbecause it is used arbitrarily and loses it's effectiveness after awhile. COs are not allowed to use corporal punishment on their inmates and like cops are only allowed to use physical violence as a last resort and within necessary reason. Again it's not even a real effective tool for them to use otherwise considering that in order to do their job effectively they must build a bond of civility between themselves and those they are paid to watch.

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Seems like pretty circular reasoning and again their seems to be a bit of dissonance between your opinon of violence being necessary to obtain freedom and yet also extolling violence as a necessary control tool. An individual using violence is useless; a good many individuals using violence in concert is a force to be reckoned with. I think children are more likely to resort to violence than adults are given the frontal lobe factor. I think it is quite natural to remind them and teach them that physically attacking someone is not the best way to go about trying to acheive something in life. The adult world doesnt use violence on a day to day level. I think it would be quite hilarious to see adults start physically attacking their bosses. But one only sees that in the fantasy of television. As for those who perform acts of violence as workers of the state they are a small minority of individuals who are trained to use violence as a method (certainly not the only method by any means) to protect themselves and or protect others from dangerous individuals. You can certainly make a case that the Iraq war is an unjustified war and that lethal injections are in violation of the 8th amendment and doesnt deter crime but that really doesnt have anything to do with the purpose of violence being controlled by a group of professionals who can be trusted to handle their authority properly, morally, and justly. And if they can't be properly, morally, and justly fired of course.

it's sad we are like this in america, is seems like soon most americans will have an jail experience in their lifetime and that is wrong

I think you may be mistaking me for a Yank -- God only knows why. Anyway, I wasn't refering specifically to your revolution, or any revolution, though they of course weren't specifically excluded from my statement. I had more in my mind WW2, though revolution did cross my thoughts briefly, truth be told.

As for the thoughts you refered to, they are all well and good, but you often need violence to make thought reality. I doubt sitting pontificating on the matter would have done us Brits much good as Hitler expanded his empire. And yes, control leads to violence (sometimes it needs violence) but control is very much part of human society, and just as you'll never rid the world of that, so you'll never rid it of violence. Both have always been part of human societies, and always will.


Women manipulate others to commit violent acts in order to further their own interests. Men will still do that, but also will engage in violence because they enjoy it. I don't agree that women enjoy watching violence as much as men, unless they are directly benefiting in some way from it.


Most men like violence of one form or another, I suspect. The problem is that it's become generally unacceptable to admit to enjoying traditional mens activities like fighting, or hunting. I don't believe that applies everywhere, of course. But that's how I've seen things gradually go over here in the UK as female liberals/leftist have gained more power.


But those sorry saps, as you call them, constitute the majority of humanity and therefore are a good guide as far as making the point I did regarding human behaviour.


It's still violence for not complying with their directions, just as is Tasering, or an armlock.


Of course it's intentional. Just like hitting a child who was intent on damaging your property in order to deter them from continuing.


That's just the rubbish peddled by pacifists, liberals and other leftist rabble in order to brainwash people into believing the world and humanity is something it's not. Torture works very well in certain circumstances. Your intelligence services have been using it since the year dot. I doubt they'd waste their time on it if they weren't getting results.


As I've stated and implied, violence is an omnipresent factor in human society. Ideally that needs to be recognised, even embraced. Just as having an overly violent society is not conducive to providing a pleasant and secure experience for its citizens, so is one that is overly averse to using violence in a controlled manner. You can take many parts of the UK as an example. Kids recieve no discipline because adults fear being labelled abusers, and old folk in some cities are forced to become literal prisoners in their own homes because they're not allowed to carry firearms to protect themslves from the marauding gangs of thugs that are the product of that lack of discipline in schools.

To the point: Over crowding of prisons, its expensive - and so its very reasonable to take measures to reduce prison population in order to save money through a number of measures. Also create and maintain a society where it is easier and more feasible to make money lawfully (jobs, businesses) than unlawfully (such as through organised crime).