Car Powered By Water A Reality (link)

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nevermind

"I praise and love the Lord my God with all my heart and all my mind and all the rest."

I bought a Latin textbook so it is my current fad.

There are shortages of potable water in some countries that get worse as more people fill the world. It has nothing to do with the hydrologic cycle, but, logistical issues of irrigation, depletion of underground aquifers, and the salinization of the soil has caused shortages of potable water in some areas. If the water fuel used to power cars can't use salt water then we would really be putting a crunch on making that shortage worse.

I wasn't making a scientific argument, though. More of an economic one, maybe that's why it seemed off topic to you. I was questioning whether this would really be a breakthrough even if it is real, which I doubt. I wasn't addressing whether it would work or not.

I tried answering: salt water decomposes more readily than drinkable (that which isn't loaded so much with ions) water. You would also get chlorine I think depending on the voltage and types of electrodes... but that is from Na+ + Cl- + H2O solution and not the one below:

If you want to see water decompose: you need a 9V battery, terminal clip with wires leading out, baking soda, a spoon, a clear container, and water. Add the baking soda to the water while stirring, depending on the size spoons you have it may be one or two spoons but at least stop if any baking soda is collecting on the bottom because the maximum amount is then dissolved. Connect the terminal clip to the 9Volt battery. Place wire leads in the solution and you will see bubbles forming. One lead will have twice as many bubbles as the other lead, that is hydrogen as you can see according to:

2H2O -> 2H2 + O2

the only way to power a car with water is to put the water real high up and let it fall through a power generating turbine before letting it splash onto the ground.

Because off-load efficiency in SI engines blows chunks. For modern'ish engines, from ~half throttle and up it's in the ~200-250g/kWh region, but as load drops from there (EGR unfortunately can't be used at light load w/o misfires), BSFC increases to 1000+g/kWh around idle. So, the question is, would it be better to create some hydrogen at ~30-40% efficiency, say a liter or two, for use in low load situations, eg idle, or not, compared to the relatively poor engine efficiency at low load.
This is very different from fuel cells.
See above.
I'm not sure about practicality or whether it's affordable, especially when considering that an engine stop/start system and proper gearing could do similar if not better, and from the manufacturer's POV cost marginally more. That being said, given the literature and incredible poor efficiency of SI engines at low load, I haven't seen anyone raise any logical reasons why this wouldn't work.

1. Of course one can burn water. In a fluorine atmosphere. I would not recomment doing this.

2. Anyone out there think all aspies are super intelligent ought read this thread!

Sorry. But Know why thermodynamics is so bloody dull? Because there are three laws. Only three laws. And there are no exceptions. Thermodynamics does not allow a bloody water car.

3. And "HHO" don't go cause H can make only one bond.

So you're going to break water back into H2 and O2 so you can then burn the H2 and O2 to form water again? Seriously, how does that make any sense? The reason I brought up fuel cells is because they do not involve doing electrolysis in place. The website for Aquygen clearly states that they use Electrolysis. Where does the power to run the electrolysis unit come from? You would need a large bank of batteries OR a hydrocarbon fuel driven generator OR some form of Photovoltaic cells that are SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful than what is now available. In any case the burden of proof is on the inventor. If the people selling this system want my confidence in it then a peer review would seem to be in order. Also on that website they claim temps of up to 10000 degrees can be achieved with their Aquygen welding process. Holy Hell Thermite burns at about 4500 F.

You have to think in terms of input ≥ output. You have to get the energy from somewhere, and eventually it all derives from the mass of the sun. Efficiency is never 100%, so you're always going to lose usable energy when it is transfered.

As for me, I'd rather use a vehicle which runs off the Krebs Cycle... like a horse or just walk for myself. It's healthier, more environmentally friendly, animals form friendships with their owners, etc.

Didn't you read all of my post?
Likely the same place all the other electrical power comes from in a car, the alternator. Stock alts put out around ~100A these days IIRC, and HO's ~300+A, so assuming the link in Wikipedia about Hydrogen electrolysis efficiency was correct the device could produce ~.5kW to ~2kW worth of hydrogen per second, and given it's energy density at atmospheric, fill up a two liter (~10kW worth of Hydrogen) bottle in ~5-20 seconds.
The hydrocarbon fuel driven generators you speak are called alternators these days.
D00d, ease up. It's a short article in some internetz zin3, not an SAE paper. If you want to find out more about how the device works, if it does, why don't you ask the inventor. All I'm saying is that it's conceivable Hydrogen could be used to help out with vehicle efficiency. Just like hybrid systems, and taller gearing, and efficient driving, etc...
I don't think they really care about what one person on the internetz thinks. If you want more info from 'em, then ask 'em.
They claim those temps assuming the proper substrate. Since I don't know much about materials science, I can't venture to say what it is, however Hydrogen welding if setup properly can supposedly get quite hot.

yesplease,

Denny Klein claims the following:
1) Turned the mickey mouse molecule into H-H-O you believe it, I don't
2) Will have a car on the market in 2 years that has a portable electrolytic unit to convert H2O to H-H-O you believe it may happen, I don't.
3) States that he can drive a car 100 miles on 4 ounces of water, you buy that, I don't.

If Denny Klein really did convert H2O into H-H-O, then for coaxing a Hydrogen Atom into making two bonds he should be a shoo in for a Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

Where exactly did I claim to believe any of those? D00d, stick with logic. You're sounding wackier than they are. It's one thing to make up stuff with no meaning and/or ill-defined meaning. It's another to accuse others of stuff they have never stated.
There is no H-H-O linked in the article. The only thing stated was HHO, which has no basis in science jargon I know of. They could've as easily said they turned it in to super-duper-happy-gas, which would've had the same meaning in any scientific context, that is to say, none. That being said, I wasn't talking about their wacky terms, only basic physics.

yesplease,

Denny Klein claims the following:
1) Turned the mickey mouse molecule into HHO (something other than water ). Do you believe it? I don't.
2) The original article is dated Sept. 6 2006. They claimed the car would be available in two years. Now on the hytechapps website they claim a car system will be available in 2009. Do you believe they will meet that deadline? I don't.

3) States that he can drive a car 100 miles on 4 ounces of water. Do you buy that? I don't.

Denny Klein claims to have converted H2O into HHO, which is apparently NOT water vapor. And it is apparently not two H2s to a one O2 ratio in the conventionally accepted manner that those molecules would normally exist. Do you believe that the burden of proof of such extraordinary claims rests with Denny Klein?

On the US Patent Office I did a search for the Trademark name Aquygen. It is listed as being applied for Oct. 30 2005, listing Aaron Mason as the Attorney of Record. At the website of Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc. it is stated that the Electtolyzing Gas Generator is patented. I have done searches for Dennis Klein, Denny Klein,Klein Denny and Klein Dennis as both Assignee and inventor and had no Matches. I also did searches for Electrolyzing Gas Generator as the invention name and received no matches. Maybe someone else can do better.

extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. but I've already said that...haven't I?...

I'd like to see a Flourine atmosphere (as long as I didn't have to be in it.. Fourine is so reactive, that it would combine with almost everything in sight... but hey, as a mental excersize...

Try combining Francium and Florine. As those are the two extremes of ionization potential and electronegativity, it would be QUITE a reaction...