The beginning of our end: The weeding out of auti embryos

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That's much better, less sufferers in this life would be.

im doing just the opposite

What a sense of entitlement some people have. It's not the kids that are imperfect, it's the parents. Why couldn't they just adopt an NT child that desperately needs a home if they feel so strongly about not having anymore autistic children?

I have 2 autistic boys, and I'm just as proud of them as I am of my NT daughter.

It is disturbing to read my ''type'' has to be ruled out. As if I'm some kind of an illness. I was a nice child, and I can be happy. Earlier I've read in a Dutch article that autism is a very severe disorder that makes it impossible for the one who suffers from it to be happy. The argument that was presented was that it makes it hard to act well in social situations. Apparently the writer of this article couldn't imagine that it is actually possible that a person does not even want to listen to his social NT conversation. At least, I don't. He looks completely out of his NT perspective, nevertheless I have to admit autism makes life in some ways much more difficult, I must say it doesn't make it impossible to become a happy, satisfied and healthy person.

You people are forgetting the LFAs....

that is a damn good point...there is a world of difference between an AS child and a LFA child, still...i really think said parents should adopt an NT child instead.

I'm not. I have a child with LFA. He's the one in that picture in my avatar. Sure, he's a lot to keep up with, but I wouldn't trade him for anything. You should feel the his tight, squishy hugs, hear his infectious giggle, see his eyes light up at x-mas lights, or when we pull into McDonald's parking lot. I see his right to be here, and to be respected just as much as anyone's. That's the thing with society... where can we, where do we draw the line as to who gets to live? Who gets to decide whose life has potential, and what makes a life worth living? And, what are society's views as to the ones that did slip by the radar, and was born anyways, despite their predetermined disability? Do we see them just as human, or less, because of the practice of weeding out their kind before they're born? There's more to think about then just the parent's feelings here. There's ramifications to this kind of thinking.

There's already an obvious prejudice that I see here often that divides AS from LFA. Some kind of underlying message that AS is just a difference, and should be accepted, but LFA... no that's different. How is it different then NTs assuming that your quality of life must inevitably suck, because you can't do things as they do?

I understand that most of you haven't had much experience with those on the other end of the spectrum, so you believe the rhetoric that's out there. Like I said, it isn't always easy to care for my son, but the rhetoric that many organizations put out there make it much worse then it needs to be. I get people come up to me in public in front of my children, and proclaim how lucky my NT daughter is, and how my HFA son is doing great, then proceed to drone on about how bad off my LFA son is. He isn't deaf, and he isn't stupid. He can hear, but they see him as less than, so it's ok to speak of him that way right in front of his face. That's why I oppose parents "rights" to choose genes that will help decrease the chances of autism. What does that do, and say about public perception of the ones that are already born?

It'll never happen. People will always reproduce naturally, not to mention the bastion of genetic anomalies and indiffering code; scientists don't know squat. This is talk for those who have millions to squander on designer children who will eventually come to despise them and send them to third-rate elderly homes where they will marinate in two day old depends and left to masticate on industrial grade canned gruel made with 75% ash.

I do like that post. I find it strange when people separate lfa from as with such absoluteness. Within the spectrum there are differences plain to see but it tells nothing of the degree of suffering experienced- if at all. For example, I know a girl, well, as of yesterday I suppose I could call her a young woman, who was classic for the first 8 years of her life.

It was right in the midst of the mmr scare and I suspect for that reason the doctors were very reluctant to diagnose her with autism- they just claimed that she had a developmental delay. She was only diagnosed after it all started to die down.

Her life, even undiagnosed was at that time a happy one. She was always smiling, laughing and unlike stereotypes she was not prone to violence and nor did she self-harm. Yeah, she was 'in her own world', a little 'strange' and even did the playing with faeces- but it was no big deal. She was 'aloof' but that didn't make her automatically cold and 'an empty shell'. It is only now that she is on the very high end of the spectrum that she has started to become discontent with her lot. She's embarrassed, a little frustrated and has said a couple of times that she wishes to end her life.

From knowing her, I cannot accept that lfa automatically means that the individual suffers more (if at all) than somebody with hfa or as. The spectrum is far more complicated than that- as are people's attitudes towards these individuals- and the individual's response. Some people like to simplify things- but it is that sort of mind-set that really has damaged a lot of people- even on this forum.

I acknowledge that there are people on the spectrum that have real problems and who need help. I am one them- I am high functioning but my sensory issues are a big deal for me. But I'm sure they wouldn't be disabling if I was given access to resources, some funding towards resources to help me etc.

Also I find it strange that some individuals in my family who believe that vaccines cause autism are in favour of this- surely if the risks of having autism are largely environmental than this would be a complete waste of time?

I told them that they make no sense, but they always sound so annoyed and disappointed when I bring the subject of autism up. I think that it's merely them and their idea of perfection that they are concerned about when it comes down to it.

You are not getting it ,I am not putting LFAs on a lower level but I mentioned LFAs because they are certainly the ones who have the severe cases of autism.
I don't want my future son/daughter (theoretically) to be born as LFA nor to be an HFA like me , to be bullied all during schooldays and to face all social difficulties all during his childhood and to grow up as withdrawn adult with almost zero social life. That would be selfish, I would want him NT, like anyone else ...but that won't be a problem for me because I am not having children either way.

Abortion is killing but re-engineering ..that's something else....

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 08 Dec 2008, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well all I can say is they may as well do the same weeding out with NTs. I don't know if anyone knows this but even NTs have many forms of social mutations as well.

Some suffer from a bipolar disorder, some Major Depressive Disorder, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Might as well base genetics of what's popular and what's not in this culture. Still would be good if we could get cures or help for those who suffer from LFA. I mean it must be a painful thing to deal with no matter what kind of life they have. To have all those thoughts there and not be able to process them out into the open can be a major frustration just as if someone was in a coma and aware of what was going on but couldn't respond.

Even for cystic fibrosis or the muscular wasting disease where the lifespan is severely shortened and the person suffers a lot of physical pain because of it, it's almost like you might as well ask the people who are already affected, "Do you wish you'd never even existed at all? Is there not a single shred of redemption in your having been alive at all?"

And as for screening out autism or Down's, that's just frivellous. I think parenthood is taken too lightly and is just an automatic goal for a lot of people; this all probably supports my point of view.

Of course it's frustrating when the child becomes older- I've seen an lfa get very frustrated; I do remember a relative, in the begginning of the short time it took for her to progress, (classic to hfa seems to be a common theme in my extended family) constantly repeating 'nan, nan, nan, nan nan etc' until she was short of breath because she was trying desperately to communicate. She also has a language disorder so that made it even harder for her.

But I just wish there were further explorations of alternative communication- for those LFAs of clearly normal intelligence, and who's comprehension (if you can allow yourself to see past the apparent 'aloofness') is good.

I think it's frustrating for my son to not always be able to communicate what he wants/needs, but that's why it's all that much more important to find an alternative communication system for him rather then just relying on him developing speech.

To me, that would be comparable to someone saying to me " It must be frustrating to not be able to make, and keep friends." I'd say that it is frustrating, but would be less so if others would be more educated about AS, and I wouldn't consider my social isolation a fate worse then death. I'm actually quite happy not socializing quite a lot of the time.

I just think this whole issue is a slippery slope. IMO, if parents to be can't be willing to accept anything there child may be, then maybe they ought to rethink having children. Anything can happen, from cerebal palsey to mental retardation to mental illness. Being a parent isn't a right, it's a privilege that so many seem to take advantage of.

I'm not that horrified - most babies with Down Syndrome are aborted. That's worse in my opinion.

It just seems silly to me. If only 10% of autism is actually genetic, there's still a significant risk of it anyway. Also, a 5:1 ratio doesn't mean if they have a daughter she won't be autistic. I'll actually find it quite funny to hear when a couple goes through this process and ends up with an autistic daugther. Or one born with some other condition.

The thing that made me sad at this was not that people didn't want a disabled child, but that after having disabled children, they desperately wanted a 'normal' child as if to make up for the others.

This article also reminds me of someone telling me they met a woman who had 10 children, 9 of which had cerebal palsy. She couldn't take care of them very well - she shaved all their heads so they wouldn't get lice, for example. The person telling me was like "If you had, say 5 kids with cerebal palsy, wouldn't you stop having kids?"

There's a lot of wisdom in your suggestion.

Apparently not everyone here knows that due to being able to see what gender a fetus is using simple noninvasive ultrasound
and legal abortions on demand
there are whole villages in China and India where there are no female children under the age of 10.

In India there are some programs in place to pay parents not to abort their female fetuses because the whole thing has gotten way out of hand.

In about 10 years or sooner, expect the dating market to be flooded with young Chinese and East Indian males looking for Western spouses because there aren't enough in their own country or even their immigrated culture to Western countries.