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Kraichgauer
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09 Sep 2019, 7:13 pm

Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I thought that was pretty self explanatory what I wrote. My dad was able to buy a house and provide my mom and me with a comfortable, middle class existence working at an aluminum plant. After he passed away, the company had been purchased by an Australian businessman who was infamous for his ruthless union busting. The medical benefits that had been promised to my mom and the spouses of other retirees were suddenly withdrawn, and retirees and surviving spouses had to seek help from ARP. This can not be explained as anything other than corporate greed at the expense of workers and their surviving family members who promises had been made to.

Your parents got lulled into a comfortable, dependent relationship.

It's the same problem as the people in this topic face.

Blame should be on the liberal (union person) who made these false promises and put your parents and the people in this topic in such a bad situation.

Conservatives derive their ideas from the perspective that humans are vile.

So, of course, this Australian man savagely schemed to get as much for himself.

Conservatives saw that coming a mile away.

Liberal, naïve, "sheeple", innocently saw rainbows and benevolence. :)


I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


If I may ask what happened to Kaiser Aluminum afterwards? The business not the workers.


It's still in operation, but from what I understand, it's no longer the big employer it used to be.


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Antrax
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09 Sep 2019, 8:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I thought that was pretty self explanatory what I wrote. My dad was able to buy a house and provide my mom and me with a comfortable, middle class existence working at an aluminum plant. After he passed away, the company had been purchased by an Australian businessman who was infamous for his ruthless union busting. The medical benefits that had been promised to my mom and the spouses of other retirees were suddenly withdrawn, and retirees and surviving spouses had to seek help from ARP. This can not be explained as anything other than corporate greed at the expense of workers and their surviving family members who promises had been made to.

Your parents got lulled into a comfortable, dependent relationship.

It's the same problem as the people in this topic face.

Blame should be on the liberal (union person) who made these false promises and put your parents and the people in this topic in such a bad situation.

Conservatives derive their ideas from the perspective that humans are vile.

So, of course, this Australian man savagely schemed to get as much for himself.

Conservatives saw that coming a mile away.

Liberal, naïve, "sheeple", innocently saw rainbows and benevolence. :)


I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


If I may ask what happened to Kaiser Aluminum afterwards? The business not the workers.


It's still in operation, but from what I understand, it's no longer the big employer it used to be.


I'm not surprised, and half expected you to tell me they were out of business. Two possibilities come to mind: by making themselves an unattractive employer they lost valuable people and declined, or pressure from international competition made it that even with severe policies they couldn't compete.

If it's the first case, the Aussie's tactics backfired and he was punished for his "greed." If it's the second, the Aussie's tactics are all that kept the company alive.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Sep 2019, 10:03 pm

Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I thought that was pretty self explanatory what I wrote. My dad was able to buy a house and provide my mom and me with a comfortable, middle class existence working at an aluminum plant. After he passed away, the company had been purchased by an Australian businessman who was infamous for his ruthless union busting. The medical benefits that had been promised to my mom and the spouses of other retirees were suddenly withdrawn, and retirees and surviving spouses had to seek help from ARP. This can not be explained as anything other than corporate greed at the expense of workers and their surviving family members who promises had been made to.

Your parents got lulled into a comfortable, dependent relationship.

It's the same problem as the people in this topic face.

Blame should be on the liberal (union person) who made these false promises and put your parents and the people in this topic in such a bad situation.

Conservatives derive their ideas from the perspective that humans are vile.

So, of course, this Australian man savagely schemed to get as much for himself.

Conservatives saw that coming a mile away.

Liberal, naïve, "sheeple", innocently saw rainbows and benevolence. :)


I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


If I may ask what happened to Kaiser Aluminum afterwards? The business not the workers.


It's still in operation, but from what I understand, it's no longer the big employer it used to be.


I'm not surprised, and half expected you to tell me they were out of business. Two possibilities come to mind: by making themselves an unattractive employer they lost valuable people and declined, or pressure from international competition made it that even with severe policies they couldn't compete.

If it's the first case, the Aussie's tactics backfired and he was punished for his "greed." If it's the second, the Aussie's tactics are all that kept the company alive.


They were doing pretty well before he bought the company.


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EzraS
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10 Sep 2019, 1:58 am

"Kaiser Aluminum & Chemical Corporation
International Directory of Company Histories

Wholly Owned Subsidiary of MAXXAM Inc. through Kaiser Aluminum Corporation and MAXXAM Group Inc.
Incorporated: 1940 as Todd Shipbuilding Corporation
Employees: 10,661
Sales: $2.09 billion "

https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/poli ... orporation



Kraichgauer
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10 Sep 2019, 2:08 am

EzraS wrote:
"Kaiser Aluminum & Chemical Corporation
International Directory of Company Histories

Wholly Owned Subsidiary of MAXXAM Inc. through Kaiser Aluminum Corporation and MAXXAM Group Inc.
Incorporated: 1940 as Todd Shipbuilding Corporation
Employees: 10,661
Sales: $2.09 billion "

https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/poli ... orporation


Yeah?


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cyberdad
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10 Sep 2019, 2:33 am

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
In your estimation, she may not qualify as 'enough' of a mixed race child, as she is only half Irish/half Puerto Rican.


Isn't your daughter/son Greek like you? how is the child half irish and half Puerto Rican?

Also Puerto Ricans consider themselves white Spanish like Aubrey Plaza so is this really mixed?



One of my daughters is, if you need an explanation, it's my step-granddaughter. But, it makes no difference to me. She's my granddaughter.

That was the comment I expected from you. You be the judge... her dad is Puerto Rican, lives in Puerto Rico, has dark skin and very dark, curly hair. The dark skin won out over the light. So, not sure if that fits your description of mixed. But since they identify as Hispanic, and it's on equality work applications, it's my understanding that she's mixed.


I see...no it's not my place to judge people's personal private decisions



EzraS
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10 Sep 2019, 4:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I
have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


It seems like you tend to paint this picture of conservatives having all the wealth and power and liberals being downtrodden plebeians under their heel.

There are way too many CEOs and tycoons who are not conservative republicans for that to be true.



Persephone29
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10 Sep 2019, 4:53 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I
have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


It seems like you tend to paint this picture of conservatives having all the wealth and power and liberals being downtrodden plebeians under their heel.

There are way too many CEOs and tycoons who are not conservative republicans for that to be true.


Just think of all the money George Soros wastes on pitting certain administrations against each other. He causes havoc all over the globe. He does not necessarily feel bad for the poor, but the poor en masse can be an effective battering ram.

How many poor could he have helped? Instead, he chooses chaos. And the Liberals are okay with it because if it works, they'll be in power forever.


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EzraS
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10 Sep 2019, 5:12 am

Persephone29 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I
have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


It seems like you tend to paint this picture of conservatives having all the wealth and power and liberals being downtrodden plebeians under their heel.

There are way too many CEOs and tycoons who are not conservative republicans for that to be true.


Just think of all the money George Soros wastes on pitting certain administrations against each other. He causes havoc all over the globe. He does not necessarily feel bad for the poor, but the poor en masse can be an effective battering ram.

How many poor could he have helped? Instead, he chooses chaos. And the Liberals are okay with it because if it works, they'll be in power forever.


It will probably be said that they donte a lot of money. But like Jesus said regarding the widow's mite, they are not really making any sacrifices. They only donate a fraction of their wealth.

Interestingly enough when David Koch died they were spitting on his grave and hoping he is buring in hell, even though when I looked him up he was described as a philanthropist first thing by several sources.

It just goes back and boils down to, liberals are like Christ and conservatives are like Satan.



LoveNotHate
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10 Sep 2019, 10:43 am

EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm a Lutheran, so trust me, I
have no illusions about how flawed human nature is. But I also know we're redeemed so we can be better.
Conservatives who saw such things as what happened at Kaiser Aluminum a mile away did nothing to stop it.


It seems like you tend to paint this picture of conservatives having all the wealth and power and liberals being downtrodden plebeians under their heel.

There are way too many CEOs and tycoons who are not conservative republicans for that to be true.


Just think of all the money George Soros wastes on pitting certain administrations against each other. He causes havoc all over the globe. He does not necessarily feel bad for the poor, but the poor en masse can be an effective battering ram.

How many poor could he have helped? Instead, he chooses chaos. And the Liberals are okay with it because if it works, they'll be in power forever.


It will probably be said that they donte a lot of money. But like Jesus said regarding the widow's mite, they are not really making any sacrifices. They only donate a fraction of their wealth.

Interestingly enough when David Koch died they were spitting on his grave and hoping he is buring in hell, even though when I looked him up he was described as a philanthropist first thing by several sources.

It just goes back and boils down to, liberals are like Christ and conservatives are like Satan.

On obituary news topics, I've seen WP members criticize others, "it's a standard practice here not to speak ill of the dead".

Then on Koch's obituary topic, that practice went out the window.


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LoveNotHate
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10 Sep 2019, 10:49 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in human benevolence. I don't believe in all "liberal" ideas.

To me, the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives is their perspective of humans behavior.

The conservative sees humans as vile , so thinks , one should minimize dependence and governance.
The liberal sees humans as benevolent, and thinks, dependence and governance are wonderful.

"Vile" means wicked, corruptible, unpleasant.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Sep 2019, 11:31 am

I don't feel "dependence" is "wonderful." That's ridiculous.

Government is an entity meant to prevent anarchy, in my opinion.



LoveNotHate
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10 Sep 2019, 11:32 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't feel "dependence" is "wonderful." That's ridiculous.

Government is an entity meant to prevent anarchy, in my opinion.

So, you oppose welfare (dependence)?


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kraftiekortie
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10 Sep 2019, 11:35 am

I oppose it if it's not needed. I feel, at times, that welfare is a scourge. I feel like "dependency" can be a scourge, too.

There are times when it is needed, though.

If somebody is burned out of a house, and has nowhere to live, that person probably needs lots of governmental help if no family help is forthcoming.

A "safety net" is needed.

What we also need is a situation where people who are let go because of being "obsolete" become trained in the "new technology," so they will be viable in the 21st Century. There are many coal miners who will become obsolete shortly.

I don't feel like it would be good to go back to the conditions of the late 19th century in the United States----where unregulated business reigned, and "panics" were the order of the day because of this lack of regulation.



LoveNotHate
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10 Sep 2019, 11:41 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
A "safety net" is needed.
There ya go, thinking humans are benevolent creatures that should put in care of others.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Sep 2019, 11:43 am

There still needs to be a "safety net," no matter what anybody says.

For practical, as well as altruistic, reasons.

You're taking an extreme position on something which has much nuance.