Trump wants to deport people here for medical reasons.

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Hypocrisy is not the issue. Wealthy people with employees being tight with their cash is the issue. I believe there are very many non-conservatives, liberals, democrats who fit that description.

Your questions introduced the idea of "fault".

Self-reliance is not about "fault"

What is your point to this interrogation?

You're right.

Likely, knowing you can call police, results in many people NOT BEING PREPARED.

Likely, knowing you can call police, results in many people NOT BUYING A GUN.

Likely, knowing you can call police, results in many people becoming victims.

This is called a "MORAL HAZARD".

I would say in all those cases the less careful or irresponsible someone is, the more likely they are to be victimized.

Whereas people who have the attitude of taking responsibility for themselves and being self reliant and vigilant and so on are less likely to be victimized. And less likely to need help. Especially when it comes to daily life.

Point as in my goal?



a. To show how absurd your belief system is when taken to its conclusion

b. To see if there are holes in my own belief system as well and if there are holes fix them so I can have a better understanding of our world. So, I'm not only interrogating you but myself as well.

One can take all the precautions one wants. There is still the unexpected and the thing one never thought of or out of context problem. The problem with personal responsibility is that it assumes that one's choices always leads to one's outcomes and circumstances. And, that one knows all of what one choices are. No one is omniscient. No one has absolute awareness of all like a god. Our control is limited. It is not absolute as our society pretends it is. And, it presumes that choices are made in a vacuum. They're not. Others control what choices one has and what choices one thinks one has. So does genetics. Others make the rules, laws, set the standards, guard the doors and have the keys. So, if life is what one makes it it is also true that life is what others make it as well. Let's not forget the physical laws of our universe as well.

We have both choices and limits. Conservatives concentrate on the choices part and forget about the limits part.

The whole American philosophy of individualism, personal responsibility and self-reliance over simplifies what is complex and is only part of the greater picture of things.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 11 Sep 2019, 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

So what is your own belief system then? LoveNotHate provided a concise layout, so what's yours? I would be interested in putting the two side by side and comparing them.

In a nutshell I believe that we have choice but our choices have limitations. I do believe that our choices do influence our outcomes and circumstances but I don't accept that this is absolute and I believe that other things outside of ourselves genetics influences our outcomes as well.

I don't believe that government or individualism is our answer. I believe that technology (nano-tech, wireless networking, AI,,etc), genetic engineering and understanding of the human brain is the basis to my answer.

I believe in order to fix our problems we as a society have to get to stage six of Kohlberg's level of moral development. To do this, we have to understand each other in an empathetic way. We have to know what the other person is going through and experiences on a global level. Imagine men understanding women and vice versa.

With nano-tech, genetic engineering, wireless networking I think this can be made possible. Imagine using nano-tech to be able to transmit the neuron connects of one person and transmitting them to another thereby giving one person another's experiences. I believe this is the key. This empathy network is the key to getting to the sixth stage of Kohlberg's moral reasoning. Through understanding of each other and ourselves we can come to a consensus as to how to live our lives and to live best.

Quite brilliant! this is very insightful

I do not think that is an American philosophy. When someone starts out in life they are completely dependant. The need to be fed, bathed, dressed etc.

But the idea is that their parents/parent/ guardian et al is supposed to potty train them, to be able to relieve themselves by themselves instead of needing to have their diapers changed their whole lives.

Likewise they are taught to feed themselves, insted of someone putting food in their mouth for them, to bathe themselves, to dress themselves. To eventually get to school by themselves. Do their own homework. To look after themselves.

So life starts out with people being taught skills of self reliance and independence. And when they achieve all that, then they become parents and continue the cycle.

That is been how humankind has operated all over the world for thousands of years.

Now you can come up with a slew of what about this and what about that. What if the child is mentally and or physically incapable and so on. But in general and overall most of us were taught self reliance, individualism, personal responsibility, prudence, caution etc from the beginning.

But overall do you think one does better and has better chances in life with those qualities or without those qualities?

Have you not raised your daughter to look after herself and look out for herself to the best of her ability?

I think this in some ways is the one of the only virtues of a free market. Yes I am cognisant of how the business cycle requires prosperity and so the bottom line of nearly all big companies is linked to the spending power of the working class (unless of course your business portfolio is luxury cars, caviar and french wine).

However I will apply your very own words and caution there are limits to the "greed is good" ethos of big capital. I think supporters of conservative government practice "moral relativity" where they relieve their dissonance by rationalising the benefits of free market and pretend that screwing workers rights is a natural consequence of demand/supply in the labor market. I don't actually think Trump supporters believe in their hearts that he is really going to save them.

I rationalise that you have to find a middle ground Ezra. In my view democrat/labor based governments work for the majority of the population whereas republican/conservative governments advocate for a minority. But of course even a left wing government policies are subject to the free market, I am not that naive.

In reading the last few posts, I'm just stunned that anyone feels they can depend on anyone for anything. Maybe life has suggested to you that you can depend on others, life has not suggested that to me, at all. I'm definitely an autist, but I believe my upbringing compounded my isolation/self-reliance issues.

I don't believe anyone, except God and maybe my husband (even that can be circumstantial) will be there for me.

What I foresee is that nothing, even the most basic of human needs will be provided. When I plan for the future, I plan that no needs will be met by anyone but me. So, I do foresee every contingency, in that I see I need to meet every need.

If I don't have a place to live, I will be homeless.
If don't possess insurance and I get sick, I will die.
If I don't have money, I won't eat.

It really is very simple, for me at least. Maybe some will say, "I pity you. That's so sad." But, how is it really sad if it's all I've known? It could be sad if I'd known another way, I guess. Maybe if Voc Rehab comes through, I'll feel differently. I've applied, but I'm not holding my breath.

I am willing to accept government assistance, but I certainly do not feel that it is owed to me or that I am entitled to it.

And if America is so neglectful of its needy, why am I being provided for? Or am I supposed to complain that I am not getting enough?

People who have “invisible” disabilities frequently have difficulty obtaining benefits.