[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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It sounds like you're accusing them of desiring the same outcome Israel seeks, but in reverse.

I'm very clear eyed about Israel and their various failures as a state, including their role in creating Hamas in the first place, but after what I saw being broadcast live by Hamas and the celebration of it by various moral midgets around the world, I really don't care too much about how bloody their reprisals get. I of course think they should try and minimize civilian casualties and collateral damage, but when facing an enemy that revels in civilian carnage and uses their own people as human shields, I just can't get too worked up about it.

Also, I wouldn't want to be standing near certain Iranian leaders or a certain hotel in Qatar for a while, the kidon are very efficient, notwithstanding the occasional Moroccan waiter.

More Palestinians than Israelis have died during this decades long conflict. The cycle of violence has to stop somewhere. Returning to something like the Oslo Accords would be the best thing for both sides of the conflict. Although this seems unlikely as Gaza is currently being pounded to smithereens.

I've said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again - - after this current conflict if through with, the Israelis need to eradicate Hamas from the power structure of Gaza in the same manner that the allies had deNazified Germany following WWII. Perhaps invite the Palestinian Authority to take over the government there, as incompetent and ineffectual as they have been on the West Bank. At least they'd be preferable to Islamic fundamentalists.

The opportunity for doing that has passed. They can think about removing their dick from the hornets nest again once Hamas is eliminated.

Which is literally all I am saying for several pages now

What should be done to fix the problems associated with Israel that have been demonstrated historically and currently?

Hamas is not the only problem or potential problem. The IDF has not just attacked Hamas. It’s mostly been civilians.

The question would be why do they do it?

Are they desperate?

Or are they criminally insane?

What should they do?

The third world war?

Because Hamas makes you a guerrilla, Israel does both: guerrillas and war with cutting-edge military means.

<>

The Israelis have returned to their land since the war.

Which had totally changed in the meantime over many centuries.

1) Peace table
2) Agree on rules: water, light, food, and quality of life *Identical for both

in your opinion...is it possible to live in the midst of the abject poverty imposed by the other party?



*What
3) Immediate truce
*****Dialogue *****

4) Prevent the war from annihilating the Palestinians and destroying them.
5) Avoid involving other nations, and this is very easy to do.

6) Avoid ambiguous policies.
The politics of ambiguity
The Israeli government has never admitted it has nuclear weapons, preferring to maintain a policy of "deliberate ambiguity" whereby it neither confirms nor denies possessing them.

...

Let's be careful...

7) Both sides must accept both states.

Under the same conditions as Wealth: therefore everyone, but also us Westerners *We must contribute to ensuring that they are well

I wonder... is the solution to first totally annihilate them, and then suffer the same from other nations?



What do we want?

Does this happen?

Be careful, they are using these conflicts in various arts of the world to create absolute chaos.

Be careful because these are conflicts of very high importance.

Do you think human life counts for nothing?

I ask!

I see creepy comments.

Last edited by Huckleberry Finn on 16 Oct 2023, 4:56 am, edited 5 times in total.

Si

Okay, let's narrow this question down a bit because nobody appears to answering it. Forget about past peace processes and the like, what we'd like to know is how should Israel have responded to last weekend's attack by Hamas? It seems like a lot of people here are suggesting that they should have done nothing.

Israel is an affluent first world country. The last thing they want is conflict which will see their children get conscripted to die on the battlefield, They didn't ask for this. They were thrust into it by HAMAS.

Yet, they're perfectly happy to keep expanding settlements on land that doesn't belong to them.

Israel could have made an accommodation with Secular Palestinians 40 years ago. Instead they chose to violently drive the PLO out of Lebanon. it's a land dispute at the end of the day. Both the Israeli's and the Palestinians believe they have historical claims to the land and neither are willing to give way. The only way forward is some sort of political accommodation as was tried in the 1990's. Before the assassinations of Rabin (Israeli) and Arafat( Palestinian) helped leaded to todays mess.

Repost
Thought experiment here. What would you do if like in the TV show Quantum Leap you were transported into Benjamin Netanyahu’s body on today’s date?

If it was me I would s**t my pants because from what I see all options are either unrealistic or would make me a war criminal.

I could continue to do what he is doing. He is telling Hamas I will continue to cutoff your food, water, and electricity unless you free the hostages. In other words create 2 million hostages to free an estimated 150. The whole corridor idea is a PR, everybody knows nobody is going to take the Palestinians. Even if a corridor is opened and somebody agrees to take them Hamas won’t let them out. Yes, they elected Hamas but that was years ago. So despite all the factors that are not Israel’s fault I would be deciding to invade knowing my decision is going to kill and maim tens of thousands of innocents. And the invasion might fail. Hamas just proved they can do things that negates Israel’s military advantage. Why can’t they do it again? I'm also know if I do not destroy Hamas I will probably be lynched.

Let’s say I take that lynching risk and stop the attempt to destroy Hamas and go back to containment. That containment has to look much different. Higher fence? They just proved they can go over that. Heavily manning the border 24/7 is unrealistic. The IDF is a citizens army. Not only compulsory service but they have reservists into their 40s. Meaning a large percentage of employees need to leave their jobs. This can’t be permanent. It is also why their wars need to be ended as quickly as possible ruling out less harsh measures.

There is popular opinion that Israel as a whole is an illegitimate apartheid state. There are three suggested solutions for that. A state for Jews and Gentiles. Israelis expect that would end in Holocaust 2.0. What just happened to put it mildly solidified that opinion. The same can be said for going back to the side by side states idea. This will never happen but since the demonstrators are chanting “From River to Sea” lets say because after defeat after defeat Israelis conclude it is just not worth it, the Palestinians are going to fight to the death to the last man by any means necessary. Where would they go? Who is going to accept seven million Jews who just quit? Maybe somebody but history tells the Jews their is little or no reason to believe that.



I reposted the above because last few pages in this thread going over similar territory and while the option Israel is choosing is being challenged because it is horrific, the question I am asking is do you have a lesser evil choice? Also remember that history can argued over but not changed. Just because I and the parties involved can not see a better way does not mean it does not exist. If any group of people can think out of the box and challenge the long held assumptions expressed by me it is autistic people.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 16 Oct 2023, 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Probably in a separate thread I would be interested in your opinion of where Israel has failed because knowing you it would not be the same old, same old.