Trudeau flees as first 1,000 Trucks Arrive in Ottawa

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magz
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09 Feb 2022, 10:04 am

I think my point is - regardless of ancestors and historical references, those who make others' lives miserable are the bad guys.
Which makes me mourn the recent situation in PL-BY border. Both sides do bad and it's no consolation if the others are worse.


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funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2022, 10:07 am

So, we can agree that this occupation that was started to force the end of something that had a scheduled end in place before the actions were started is bad and the people behind it are bad guys, even before we consider their political leanings?


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magz
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09 Feb 2022, 10:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:
So, we can agree that this occupation that was ended to force the end of something that had a scheduled end in place before the actions were started is bad and the people behind it are bad guys, even before we consider their political leanings?

Errrrr... oh, ok, you've got back to OP.

I'm okay with protests even if I don't agree with their causes - but there are boundaries of tolerable disruptiveness of the protest. I don't follow this one closely enough to tell.


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09 Feb 2022, 10:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Versailles Treaty was a sad mistake; it enabled the Nazis to emerge. The Allies did not repeat that mistake after World War II.

True....the Nazis wouldn't have been "conservative"----they were extremists.




Trump is not a conservative. He's more like a populist reactionary.


Probably a good position for any TV star to take ??. LoLoLoLoLooooo…. But I don’t know if it would be good for a politician


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funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2022, 10:17 am

magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So, we can agree that this occupation that was ended to force the end of something that had a scheduled end in place before the actions were started is bad and the people behind it are bad guys, even before we consider their political leanings?

Errrrr... oh, ok, you've got back to OP.

I'm okay with protests even if I don't agree with their causes - but there are boundaries of tolerable disruptiveness of the protest.


Same, I have no opposition to protest as a means of pursuing political goals but it seems pointless when your goal is already assured before you start and your method only causes suffering for others while achieving nothing. It seems counter-productive and like something that should be opposed once you start allowing your cause to be used by reactionary populist groups to recruit and spread guano.

If the cause is disagreeable but the protest doesn't harm anyone I'm unlikely to express any real opposition, but when it's harming a large number of people and being used for disagreeable causes I think it's fair to speak critically.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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09 Feb 2022, 10:38 am

Let me just say that I have no reason to fear that Europe or North America are at serious risk of falling to a Marxist/Leninist or Bolshevik or Maoist totalitarian movement anytime soon.


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magz
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09 Feb 2022, 10:43 am

MaxE wrote:
Let me just say that I have no reason to fear that Europe or North America are at serious risk of falling to a Marxist/Leninist or Bolshevik or Maoist totalitarian movement anytime soon.

Putinist movement has its own flavor, for sure. Hard to clearly put it on a left-right ruler for me. Neoimperialist, I'd say.
They definitely accuse others of being Nazis, just like everyone else does, though.

(Yeah, Europe does not end on Germany and it's getting pretty hot east here)


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09 Feb 2022, 11:04 am

I would say Putin, an ex-KGB man, wants to return to the "glory days" of the USSR.

He feels people like Gorbachev and Yeltsin were effete, and screwed with that "glory."

He is of the classic "oligarch" persuasion.



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09 Feb 2022, 12:45 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Why should they negotiate with these occupier morons?


Because they wrote the legislation which has caused this national crisis?
To open roads and end this occupation without further duress for anyone on either side?
As an example of leadership and international cooperation?
To show respect for Canadians (truckers or not)?
To serve and represent Canadians by upholding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or else rewriting it?


Also let's not forget the truckers aren't morons. They were considered heroes and essential workers when we needed them most, when the borders were first closed to all traffic and vaccines hadn't been invented. They brought our toilet paper, our masks, our medicines, our hand sanitisers, our ventilators and our testing kits. Now, at least 90% of them are vaccinated and they social distance alone in their cabs, but you suddenly consider them morons with fewer human rights than yourself. You suggest they should be discriminated against and be denied the rights and freedoms of all other Canadian citizens.


Image


Our government should treat them no different than any other occupiers or blockaders they deal with. To give them a seat at a negotiating table is another slap in the face to Indigenous people they govern by force of the RCMP. Arrest these truckers, impound their trucks, clear the roads for emergency vehicles to be able to travel.

Any trucker, or convoy supporter, that thinks he should dictate health policy to the federal government is a moron. These are no scientists, Medical Doctors, nor public health officials. They should stay in their lane, literally, and do their jobs.

They have the exact same rights and freedoms of all Canadians. They also have the exact same consequences of their choices as the rest of us when it comes to privileges.


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09 Feb 2022, 12:52 pm

OK then. So why don't they arrest them? They need to do something, rather than hiding.

The Supreme Court can take it from there.


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09 Feb 2022, 1:24 pm

My best guess is because police and politicians feel threatened by these occupiers and the financial backing they have from far right fringe loonies across Canada, the USA, and around the world so they're treading very lightly. Maybe they'll just wait for court rulings and then enforce them, whatever they may be - gives them an excuse to blame the judge vs. their decision to enforce any particular law(s) against them.


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09 Feb 2022, 2:31 pm

Man does favour for Flu Trux Klan, receives death threats in response

Even if some of their goals are quite reasonable this rodeo has been ran by the clowns from the beginning.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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09 Feb 2022, 3:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Man does favour for Flu Trux Klan, receives death threats in response

Even if some of their goals are quite reasonable this rodeo has been ran by the clowns from the beginning.



Wait, one of the protest organizers contacted them asking for this shack to be removed? This makes zero sense, was this done to create more trouble in the protest?


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funeralxempire
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09 Feb 2022, 4:09 pm

League_Girl wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Man does favour for Flu Trux Klan, receives death threats in response

Even if some of their goals are quite reasonable this rodeo has been ran by the clowns from the beginning.



Wait, one of the protest organizers contacted them asking for this shack to be removed? This makes zero sense, was this done to create more trouble in the protest?


No idea, but I would expect if the tow truck operator was lying about who asked him to move the shack Pat King would have said something, which causes me to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's telling the truth.

I think it largely serves to illustrate how it's mostly driven by emotion and lacks anything resembling effective leadership.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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09 Feb 2022, 5:40 pm

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09 Feb 2022, 7:47 pm

Canadian truckers shut down busiest U.S.-Canada border crossing

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A convoy of Canadian truckers and protesters objecting to Covid restrictions has caused Ottawa residents headaches for weeks. Now, they are disrupting the other side of the border.

The Ambassador Bridge linking Detroit and Windsor, Ont., was closed to Canada-bound traffic on Tuesday, according to the Michigan Department of Transportation and the Canadian government, and trucks were told to cross at another bridge 60 miles away. Cars and trucks initially blocked the approach to the bridge in Windsor on Monday, and other vehicles jammed the area in solidarity.

The bridge is a key trade link, and traffic over the bridge accounts for about 27 percent of the $400 billion in annual trade between Canada and the U.S., according to the Federal Highway Administration. The alternate route, the Blue Water Bridge linking Port Huron, Mich., and Sarnia, Ont., was reporting delays of 2 hours for commercial traffic.

Traffic began flowing again on Tuesday morning at the Coutts border crossing linking Alberta and Montana after it was previously shut down.

On Monday, protesters blocked off traffic in both directions along the Ambassador Bridge that connects Windsor, Ontario, to Detroit, shutting down one of the busiest international border crossings between the U.S. and Canada.

“I think it would be a very good thing if the protest expands,” Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) said Tuesday. “I think the Canadian trucker protest is a remarkable uprising and it’s a manifestation of the deep outrage across Canada and across the United States, directed at petty authoritarian government leaders who are trying to force vaccines onto unwilling people. I’m pro-vaccine, I’ve been vaccinated myself, but I believe in individual freedom. I think it ought to be your choice.”


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