Page 27 of 539 [ 8616 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ... 539  Next

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

26 Feb 2020, 8:15 am

firemonkey wrote:
EzraS wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Just saw tweet saying a leaked govt document says if 80% in UK get the virus 500K could die.


In 2018, there were 541,589 deaths registered in England and Wales.


They could mean an extra 500K , on top of the figure you quoted .


Perhaps. A thing I keep in mind is that there is a high death rate in the world even in the best of conditions. Probably someplace else with the population of England and Wales already has twice their annual death rate.



jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,832
Location: Indiana

26 Feb 2020, 9:35 am

I read an interesting article this morning:

Today, the only thing reliable about the collective media – both American and international – is how unreliable they are. Even on vital issues, like the coronavirus, they succumb to sensationalism and conspiracy theories. Is it any wonder, then, that more people are turning away?

So why are the media still struggling? Because we aren’t getting fact-based, honest reporting. From politics to public health, the media are presenting a highly distorted, exaggerated version of reality.

We specialize in public health, so we will focus there. The single biggest topic today is the coronavirus outbreak. People are rightly concerned. Yet, instead of acting as guides that can walk the public through a confusing landscape, the media are guilty of spreading sensationalist nonsense.

Take Bloomberg and The Guardian, for instance, both of which just reported that about two-thirds of the planet could become infected by coronavirus. That hypothetical number came from an epidemiologist in Hong Kong.

Here’s the truth: Any projection about what coronavirus is going to do in the future is little better than wide-eyed speculation. Previous coronavirus outbreaks followed very different trajectories.

SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) appeared suddenly in 2002 and soon disappeared. Ten years later, MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome) emerged and stuck around. A handful of cases still occur each year.

Given how far the Wuhan coronavirus has spread already, it is reasonable to conclude that it might continue, especially in poor countries with inadequate healthcare. But it’s also equally valid to conclude that China will get the outbreak under control and the virus will stop dead in its tracks inside wealthy countries. Or, the virus could become seasonal, like influenza.

The truth is that we just don’t know. What we do know is this: Globally, influenza infects hundreds of millions of people each year and kills 300,000 to 500,000, giving a case-fatality rate of about 0.1%. Even though the Wuhan coronavirus is currently thought to have a case-fatality rate of 2% (which would make it 20 times deadlier), it’s unlikely that it will rack up a similar annual death toll because – at least for the time being – it is not going to infect hundreds of millions of people.

If the media want to be responsible, therefore, they will put the coronavirus in the context of other deadly diseases – then remind people to get a flu shot.

But that’s not what we got. Instead, we got xenophobia and blatant racism. According to U.S. News & World Report, a French newspaper described the coronavirus as “The Yellow Peril,” and the widely renowned German weekly Der Spiegel ran a cover story titled “Made in China,” which used the virus as an excuse to denounce globalization.

Not to be outdone by its continental counterparts, the UK’s Daily Mail played a large role in circulating the myth that the Wuhan coronavirus was caused by a woman eating a bat. However, as Foreign Policy notes, the video took place in Palau, and bats are not eaten in Wuhan. Despite being unambiguously debunked, the Daily Mail story is still posted.

Also still posted is another debunked story published by the Washington Times that said the Wuhan coronavirus may be a clandestine biological weapon. This conspiracy theory is based on the fact that Wuhan hosts a biological safety level 4 (BSL-4) laboratory, similar to the one that exists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. These labs study dangerous microbes; they do not engineer them. Yet, Fox News's Tucker Carlson just repeated the myth.

The moral of the story is clear: Even during a legitimate public health crisis, much of the media are not just unreliable but actively spreading misinformation. Indeed, one study showed that nearly half of the top 100 most viral health stories in 2018 were at least partially misleading.

Source: The Media Fail Miserably At Coronavirus Coverage


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


ouinon2
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2016
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 127

26 Feb 2020, 10:21 am

jimmy m wrote:
I read an interesting article this morning:

"Today, the only thing reliable about the collective media – both American and international – is how unreliable they are. .... .... Given how far the Wuhan coronavirus has spread already, it is reasonable to conclude that it might continue, especially in poor countries with inadequate healthcare. But it’s also equally valid to conclude that China will get the outbreak under control and the virus will stop dead in its tracks inside wealthy countries. Or, the virus could become seasonal, like influenza. The truth is that we just don’t know. .... .... Even during a legitimate public health crisis, much of the media are not just unreliable but actively spreading misinformation. Indeed, one study showed that nearly half of the top 100 most viral health stories in 2018 were at least partially misleading."

Source: The Media Fail Miserably At Coronavirus Coverage
:) Yes, I agree that the majority of the Press/media has become, as the article says, reliably unreliable. Sadly. :(

But, as the article says, we don't know.

And the existing data so far indicates that if containment fails, as it seems it is doing, and if the virus isn't completely wiped out by warmer drier weather over the summer, ( as if the Southern Hemisphere didn't exist :) ), and if it doesn't mutate to a milder strain, ( unlikely apparently because of something about the RNA/DNA strand structure of this virus ), and if, as reliably indicated, a vaccine ( even if discovered now ) would not be available until the end of the year, then it *is* capable of infecting 40%-70% of the population, of making 20% of those infected very ill requiring hospitalisation/serious medical care, and of killing 10% of them, or approximately 2%-3% of the generally infected.

It is apparently much more infectious/"easily spreadable" than SARS, contagious in the absence of symptoms, and 10-25 times more deadly than most flu strains. This is the threat.

Whether it happens is something else ...

... but as the WHO has been saying, virtually *no* country appears to be prepared to deal with this specific threat, most particularly the whole of Africa, much of the Middle East and near Asia, including as those do many war zones, refugee camps, porous borders and exhausted health system infrastructure, etc, and even some of the over-stretched health services of many Western nations, especially as many are already struggling to cope ( "corridor care" a new normal ), with the increasing numbers of old people, and younger, with chronic degenerative illnesses like diabetes and heart disease, both of which are apparently significant additional risk factors in Covid-19 fatality rates.

I think that it is important to take this seriously and think about how to prepare for the potentially widespread disruption that it may cause, whether that of sudden quarantine restrictions and associated loss of freedoms, disrupted trade routes resulting in shortages of food and other essential supplies such as medicines, etc, among other things in the short term, and in the longer term who knows, as countries face pressure over how much to spend on saving people ... ( not just from dying, but also from job loss, bankruptcy, etc ... ) ...

NB. .... .... which political decision-making I'm thinking might turn out to be the biggest challenge ... as it tends to end up being in a lot of infection/zombie/catastrophe stories.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

26 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

Condensed version of a blog I read somewhere:

Prevention

These are things we can do to reduce our risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection (there is no cure in sight).

• Stay at least 2m away from obviously sick people. We're trying to avoid receiving a cough/sneeze in the face, shaking hands, or being in the range of droplet splatter and the “drop zone”

• Wash your hands for 20 seconds & more frequently than you do now Soap and water and then dry, or an alcohol-based hand rub, and air dry

• Try not to touch your face. There is a chance your unwashed fingers will have a virus on them and if you touch/rub your mouth, nose or eyes, you may introduce the virus and accidentally infect yourself. Practice this; get others to call you out when you forget. Make it a game.

While a mask seems like a good idea, and when used by professionals it does protect from infection, it can actually give inexperienced users a false sense of security. There isn't a lot of good evidence (still!) that shows a mask to reliably prevent infection when worn by the public at large. They are useful to put on a sick person to reduce their spreading of the virus.

Stocking Up

Below we list things we'll need to have in case of a more major interruption to supply; a stock that will last 2 weeks. Some of these things will last much longer and include items that may not be a top priority for authorities to keep stocked:

• Alcohol-containing hand rub
• Batteries for anything that needs batteries
• Cereals, grains, beans, lentils, pasta
• Dried fruit and nuts
• Extra prescription medications, asthma relief inhalers (Some of these may be a problem, so talk to your doctor soon)
• Family pack of toilet paper
• Feminine hygiene products
• Household cleaning agents (i.e., Bleach, floor cleaner, toilet cleaner, surface cleaning spray, laundry detergent)
• Oil, spices and flavours
• Over-the-counter anti-fever and pain medications (i.e., paracetamol and ibuprofen can go a long way to making us feel less sick)
• Soap
• Soft drink or candy/chocolate for treats
• Tinned food (fish, vegetables, fruit)
• Tissues, paper towel
• Ultra-heat treated or powdered milk
• Vitamins (In case food shortages limit the variety in your diet)

The Last-Minute Fresh List

In a more severe pandemic, supply chain issues may mean fresh food becomes harder to get. So this list is an add-on to the one above, and its items should be the last things to buy if you have a hint of when supplies might slow or stop for a (hopefully short) time.

• Bread, wraps
• Eggs
• Meat for freezing
• Milk
• Vegetables, fruit
• Yogurt

And...

• Fuel for your car (e.g., keep the tank filled)


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,832
Location: Indiana

26 Feb 2020, 11:11 am

It looks like another cruise ship made the news today. This was the ship MSC Meraviglia. This ship offers Caribbean cruises. One of the crew members came down with the common cold. [“He developed symptoms of common flu and tested positive to Type A influenza after he visited the ship’s 24/7 Medical Center while already on board. He has no other symptoms.”] The ship departed Miami on Sunday and was scheduled to complete a 15-day cruise of Jamaica, the Cayman Islands, Mexico, Bahamas, Belize and Honduras, returning to Miami on March 8. The ship was denied permission to dock in Ocho Rios, Jamaica and Georgetown, Cayman Islands.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,832
Location: Indiana

26 Feb 2020, 2:48 pm

As others have said - San Francisco Mayor London Breed has declared a local emergency amid coronavirus fears. A STATE OF EMERGENCY

O.K. what does that mean!

First of all - there are still zero confirmed cases in San Francisco residents. So I wonder if she is jumping the gun.

San Francisco’s declaration, effective immediately, will be in place for seven days and will be voted on by the Board of Supervisors on March 3. This doesn't sound like an emergency. Why wait 7 days? If it is an emergency then wouldn't you gather the Board of Supervisors together and act on it immediately?

So is this real or a political stunt? What will San Francisco do to prepare?
The decree will allow the city to allocate resources around coronavirus mitigation efforts. Such efforts include staffing, the coordination of agencies throughout the city, the allowance of future reimbursement by the state and federal governments and increased awareness throughout the city on coronavirus preparation methods.

I am looking for concrete steps and concrete actions. I don't see much here.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


Last edited by jimmy m on 26 Feb 2020, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

26 Feb 2020, 2:49 pm

Fear and ignorance ... ignorance and fear ... that's how you keep people in line ...


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

26 Feb 2020, 2:59 pm

The truth about coronavirus 19: If you catch it, most likely you will have a bad case of the flu and recover.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

26 Feb 2020, 4:39 pm

EzraS wrote:
The truth about coronavirus 19: If you catch it, most likely you will have a bad case of the flu and recover.


You're young . There's a very good chance you'd survive . There's talk of rationing care in the UK based on likelihood to survive . At 63 there's a good chance I'd not be on the care list .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 61916.html


_________________
Socially drifted middle class


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

26 Feb 2020, 4:48 pm

Masks and beards .

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 1582744566


_________________
Socially drifted middle class


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,832
Location: Indiana

26 Feb 2020, 5:12 pm

Health officials on New York’s Long Island said 83 people in Nassau County are being monitored over coronavirus concerns, but added that, as of Wednesday, there were no confirmed cases of the illness in the area, and that the individuals aren’t necessarily exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19.

These individuals recently came from an area where there are confirmed cases. The individuals are being asked to quarantine themselves for a period of 14 days based on flight logs.

Source: Coronavirus concerns on New York's Long Island see 83 being monitored


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

26 Feb 2020, 5:18 pm

Following in the footsteps of San Diego County and the city of San Francisco, Orange County (California) officials today declared a local health emergency in response to the coronavirus.

Michelle Steel, chair of the county Board of Supervisors, and board Vice Chair Andrew Do announced the declaration at an early afternoon news conference. Nichole Quick, county health officer, and Richard Sanchez, director of the Orange County Health Care Agency, also attended.

There has only been one confirmed case of the virus in Orange County.

:roll:

Source:
This Orange County Register Article


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


Trueno
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2017
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,788
Location: UK

26 Feb 2020, 5:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
Fear and ignorance ... ignorance and fear ... that's how you keep people in line ...


Absolutely. Nothing to add to that!


_________________
Steve J

Unkind tongue, right ill hast thou me rendered
For such desert to do me wreak and shame


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Feb 2020, 6:23 pm

And now the fear is where I live
Coronavirus concerns on New York's Long Island see 83 being monitored

Quote:
Health officials on New York’s Long Island said 83 people in Nassau County are being monitored over coronavirus concerns, but added that, as of Wednesday, there were no confirmed cases of the illness in the area, and that the individuals aren’t necessarily exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19.

"This has been getting a lot of press and rightly so," Nassau County Executive Laura Curran said in a press conference on Wednesday. "But we are advising everyone to remain calm in Nassau County. We have no confirmed cases at this time."

Curran said that amid coronavirus concerns, residents should be mindful that it's also the middle of a busy flu season, and that everyone should be practicing good hygiene measures such as washing hands with soap and water, using hand sanitizer, and covering sneezes and coughs. She also advised staying home from work or school if you are not feeling well.

“We have boots on the ground and we are monitoring this situation in Nassau very, very closely and have been right from the very beginning to respond to any cases should they emerge in our county,” Curran said.

Officials further stressed that the 83 individuals being monitored aren’t necessarily exhibiting possible symptoms of COVID-19, but that they had recently come from an area where there are confirmed cases. The individuals are being asked to quarantine themselves for a period of 14 days based on flight logs.

“We have a procedure in place where, as airplanes arrive — and right now only American citizens are allowed to arrive as of a few weeks back — we receive notification off a list from the CDC that comes down to us of anybody that’s coming into our county who lives here, who has a potential exposure, meaning they’ve been in mainland China sometime in the last 14 days,” Dr. Larry Eisenstein said. “It is our job to within 24 hours of receiving this notice — and as you know an airplane can arrive at basically anytime — to reach out to them, to let them know that we are asking them to isolate themselves.”

Eisenstein said most of the individuals involve residents who are self-isolating in their own homes.

As of Wednesday, Nassau County officials received 320 names on such lists from the CDC, with a total of 175 people who have experienced “a partial time where they were removed from contacting other people.” The 83 people currently being monitored are checking their temperature each day, and reporting to health officials, Eisenstein said, adding that the county is following state protocols.

In a separate press conference on Wednesday, New York Mayor Bill De Blasio called for expanded travel screenings for people returning from areas currently dealing with large outbreaks of the virus. At least 38 countries have reported cases of coronavirus. As of Wednesday, New York had no confirmed cases of the illness, which has sickened over 81,000 people worldwide.


Asian-American Businesses On Long Island Struggle Amid Coronavirus Fears
Quote:
Asian-American civic leaders and business owners on Long Island said businesses there are seeing a major decline in foot traffic because of fears over the coronavirus

Businesses across Long Island and in the greater New York region have reported a 40 to 70 percent drop in business because of the virus.

The decline in business hits even harder because of the time of year, Tina Zhang, the owner of New Fu Run Chinese restaurant in Great Neck, said. She said even discounts haven't gotten people through the door.

"We usually, during the Chinese New Year, are very busy. We have a lot of big party reservations," she said.

On Saturday, Zhang welcomed local leaders for lunch and a chance to tell people there's nothing to fear.

"Don't be afraid, you know, you have a lot of support," she said. "There's no coronavirus cases."

Rachel Sha, a real estate agent in the area, said there is a hesitancy among homeowners when she brings people of Asian descent.

"I've gotten a lot of pushback when I try to show a home to people if I bring people of Chinese descent," Sha said. "Often times, people ask me, 'Are they from China?' Or, if they look or are Asian, they say, 'I don't want to show my home to this person,' because they are very nervous."


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

26 Feb 2020, 6:29 pm

I do think the world is making such a big thing out of this. Yes it can be dangerous to the elderly or those with illnesses but so can about 500 other viruses and diseases that people die of every day. You can never be too careful. Yes, be hygienic and warn the public not to go out if they think they may have the coronavirus, but shutting schools and doctors surgeries or keeping people on a cruise ship for days just because a person sneezed is really going over the top in my opinion.


_________________
Female


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

26 Feb 2020, 6:32 pm

Only 445 people have been tested in the US:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html

Now there's a report of an additional individual who tested positive today, and they had no connection with the wet market in Wuhan.

I'm guessing a lot of people have been falling through the cracks here in the US.

Trump is giving a live address on the matter shortly:

https://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-1


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin